Mauser rifle by BSW

[MARAT]

Hello everybody!
In continue of very interesting topic about Mauser rifles, I want to share with you my one.
It has original optic and it's 8x60. it was made in 1929, but I think that BSW became later?
Can somebody tell more about this hunting Mauser?DSC_1043.jpgDSC_1044.jpgDSC_1045.jpgDSC_1046.jpgDSC_1047.jpg

[MARAT]

DSC_1049.jpgDSC_1051.jpgDSC_1052.jpgDSC_1053.jpgDSC_1054.jpg

Thank you, Marat.

[mike ford]

MARAT,
Maybe Axel, or one of our other German members, can answer to the seemingly early date for BSW. It had been my impression that this name came about in the 1930s, after the Nazis took over Germany and Simson was suffering discrimination. This one clearly precedes that time. If I understand correctly that you have the scope ("original optic"), then I am jealous. The rifle seems to be in pretty good shape, for it's age, and seems to be a "known" brand. It is chambered for a very good cartridge, which may be available from PRVI. I don't know how easy it is for you to find ammo, but if it is difficult, it can be easily loaded. I believe it can be loaded using 8x57 dies, properly adjusted, if you have a set. Cases can be made from any of the available 30-06 headsize cases( 30-06/270/280/25-06) that are long enough. There are two versions, differing only in bullet diameter, but this is no more difficult than in the 8x57.
Mike

[Steve Whitley]

Actually, Mike, that name came about in September of 1933, as the Simsons were attempting to AVOID a takeover by the government. They tried to separate the arms firm from their civilian products manufacturing, in hopes of selling the arms division. To do so, a trusteeship was formed (at no small expense) with Dr. Herbert Hoffmann of Berlin at the helm, and this was where the term "Berlin-Suhler Waffen- und Fahrzeugwerke" originated. The Simsons intended to name the firearms company "WAFFA" and this name actually appears on the address line of VERY few guns made there, in late 1933. The "BSW" name was used prior to, during, and after the takeover of the company (February 1934 new administration moved in at Suhl) and it remained this way until Sauckel "gave" the company to the Gustloff Foundation.
That being said, how the 1929 date and the BSW logo show up on the same barrel is an interesting mystery.
Steve

[algmule]

Hello
Below is a link (at least I hope so) to an ad from the 1933 Wild und Hund that has Waffa, BSW and Simson in it.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Wild-und-Hund...-/300682444233

Kind regards
Peter

[Steve Whitley]

Precisely. Those three terms existed simultaneously for about one month or so, only.
Steve

[MARAT]

Mike, thank you.
I know the history of Simson family and their relations with Nazi.
I am posting images of scope, maybe them help to unthread it. DSC_1057.jpgDSC_1058.jpgDSC_1059.jpgDSC_1060.jpg

[MARAT]

In Russia, we are calling weapons, which were produced straight after finishing WW2, " bread guns".
Because, Soviet officers and solders have paid for them bread and other food.
99% of those weapons were smooth bored. The most famous gunsmith was Otto Reif, Strempel...

[Dan Patch]

If my assumption that rifles were proofed as barreled actions, with external finish yet to be accomplished, is correct I'm going to suggest this rifle was in fact proofed in 1929 as a Simson product. For some reason, possibly related to the worsening depression, the market was unfavorable and the barreled action was shelved, awaiting better economic conditions. By the time the rifle was readied for sale Simson and Germany had been turned upside down and the rifle was sold with the BSW logo. The fact the underside of the receiver behind the recoil lug is almost unmarked agrees well with Simson practice in the 1920s, as their rifles produced for the German armed forces (K98b) are typically found on such receivers. Dan

[mike ford]

MARAT,
We call such rifles "cigarette rifles", for the same reason, except cigarettes or coffee were more often traded. American cigarettes were more in demand than Russian ones. My friend Walter Grass was in a Russian Prisoner of War camp, and often talked about buying Russian tobacco and how they just dumped it loose into his pocket. They used 3 day old newspapers to roll the cigarettes, because they weren't allowed to tear up newer news papers. There is a thread on this forum, by HOOK, about a "cigarette rifle".
Mike

[mike ford]

Dan,
I wondered also if that was the reason, it's not too uncommon to see other Simson guns with both or even 3 markings. Since this is the case, and they didn't always( if ever)remove the Simson (or BSW) name before marking then again, I thought BSW was the original marking. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
Mike

[MARAT]

Dan,
There is some reason in your post, but I can't agree with you. Caliber 8x 60 was not typical for Germany Army of that period.
I think it was rare caliber, if I right remember - it was called "mauser magnum".

[sharps4590]

As I understand it the 8 X 60 Mauser came about after WWI when in Germany civilians were not allowed to own firearms chambered in military cartridges. It was a simple task to lengthen the chamber of a rifle 3mm. I don't believe it is particularly rare but certainly not as common as many others. I have a Mauser, barreled action by Christoph Funk in 8 X 60 with a .318 groove diameter and from what I can tell of the rifle it is the original chambering. I believe there was also two 8 X 60 loadings, the standard and a magnum load and I think the rifles so chambered were identified as to which they were proofed for. As with about anything I post the above is subject to correction.

[mike ford]

MARAT,
Since your rifle was proofed in 1929, I don't believe it was intended for either the "Magnum" or" Magnum Bombe" loads, which came about after your rifle was proofed. The boxes containing the heavier loads have a note saying they were not to be used in rifles proofed with the normal proof loads. Your rifle has the normal 8x60 proof, but even the normal load, in my opinion, is a very good cartridge. Rifles in this caliber are not as common as 8x57, but are common enough that they can't be considered rare. I don't think Dan was saying your rifle was built from a surplus military rifle. Simons was a Firm that was allowed, after WW1, to build military weapons(within restrictions), and I believe Dan only meant they would have used one of their new( as opposed to prior military issue) actions in building sporting rifles.
Mike

[Steve Whitley]

It is a curiosity, for certain. The 1929 proof cannot be mistaken, but the receiver top definitely was not marked prior to September of 1933. That logo (and name) simply did not exist prior to then. I almost wonder if this doesn't involve some post-war assembly (perhaps even during occupation immediately after) and was not marked with any re-proof, or ? A lot of strange work was done privately in late 1945 alone.
Steve