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Am experimenting with Hodgon Leverevolution powder in an H Barella drilling in 8x72r Sauer. Using 30-30 data to start with and 170 grain .321 bullets swaged to .318. My chronograph doesn't function in winter weather so I am guessing velocity to be 2200+ at the muzzle. Cases do not show signs of excessive pressure. Getting 1 inch groups at 50 yds. with vertical stringing using the Voigtlaender Skoparette 4x. Anybody else play with the 8x72r ?
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Contrary to popular belief and erronous American books the 8x72R was not a Sauer & Sohn development! Instead, it was the first cartridge developed by Wilhelm Brenneke, Leipzig, in 1898. Intended as an improvement over the 8x58R Sauer & Sohn. -
osekerschan,
I have a single shot (KLB) in 8x72R that I load for, although it has been a while. I tried 3031,4320,4350, N202, 4831, and 4895. The bullets I used, for the most part were also .321, resized to .318. I tried some 165 gr .308 bullets, bumped up to .318, with the 4350. My late friend and mentor Gene was working on a load for a customers rifle at the same time, and this was his suggested starting load. It gave 1896 fps with 40 gr. I felt like this powder was too slow, as was the 4831( 41gr for 2018 fps). I settled on 35 gr 3031, for 2227 fps, although 37gr 4320 was close at 2245 fps. The 3031 gave a little better accuracy in my rifle. I didn't finish working with the 4895, as I recall I killed a small buck with the 3031 load and decided to just use it. I went on to a different rifle after that. The 8x72R is the one J bore rifle I have(right now) that will not accept a bullet larger than .318. Also I trimmed my cases to 2.84", after sizing from 9.3x72R( in a 32-40 file/trim die) Gene didn't trim his, at first, causing him problems. As always, you shouldn't use the above data, unless you reduce it 10% and work back up. When I was working on these loads, there was no Leverevolution, I would be interested in your experience with it.
MikeComment
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Axel;
Herzlichen Dank fuer die Aufklaerung. My assumption was based on Cartrides of the World. They also have the bullet diameter at .323 instead of the correct .318.
Mike;
Thanks for your informative reply. I have also loaded with 35.0 grains of 3031 and achieved the same velocity as you. Am trying the Leverevolution as its burning rate falls between Ball C and H380 and should perform well in a 26 inch barrel. Will report more when it gets warmer in the Socialist State of New York.
osekerschanComment
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Axel;
Herzlichen Dank fuer die Aufklaerung. My assumption was based on Cartrides of the World. They also have the bullet diameter at .323 instead of the correct .318.
Mike;
Thanks for your informative reply. I have also loaded with 35.0 grains of 3031 and achieved the same velocity as you. Am trying the Leverevolution as its burning rate falls between Ball C and H380 and should perform well in a 26 inch barrel. Will report more when it gets warmer in the Socialist State of New York.
osekerschanComment
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osekerscham,
This cartridge is another of the ones Cartridges of the World made a mistake with. At least in my rifle, a .323 bullet will not chamber , even though they list it as the proper bullet. This just shows, you have to check everything. I believe there actually was an 8x72R S&S, that may have used a .323" bullet. I believe this cartridge may have been based on the larger 9.3x72R S&S case, instead of the 9.3x72R Norm. as the common 8x72R is. Of course, as I frequently am, I could be wrong.
MikeComment
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I am trying to get this figured out. I have had a beautiful 1935 drilling for a long time. I have shot the 16 gauge shotgun barrels, but have never been able to use the rifle component. I finally got some 8 x 72 brass to reload, but I have no reloading data to use. I am trying to approach the project carefully, because the gun has some history, and I don't want to screw it up.
The markings on the barrel are 7,8mm
72
and ST.m.G. N 13gr.
I got the brass from buffalo arms. It looks to be reformed 9,3 x 72R. The bore measures .319, so I am thinking I need to use .323, but I have not done a chamber cast yet.
just dropping the brass into the chamber it sticks with about 4mm sticking out, but is slightly loose at the base, as if it needs crimping or perhaps is a shoulder issue. I have been assuming that I can load and crimp with regular 8 x 57 dies, carefully. Advice would be appreciated.Comment
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As you said ,the problem could be a short chamber combined with too long brass. Or the regular 8x57 dies over expanded the neck and it is binding. I resize using 9.3x72 CH4D dies and starting with new Norma cases. The reformed brass is over 2.84" long but it doesn't bother in my gun. As for load data try the IMR 3031 and work up from 31 grains, that will give you about 2000fps with 160 or 170 grain bullets. Slug the bore but it probably should use .318. You might be able to use .321 bullets made for the 32 Special Winchester, better listen to Mike on that subject.
osekerschanComment
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Speaking from the experience of reforming 9,3x72R cases to another tapered case, 9,3x57R/360:Originally posted by toadboy65 View Post
This will not be a "shoulder issue" as there is no shoulder.
It probably will be a "taper issue" - minimum variances in the tapered case body or neck area will be enough to cause the problem.
Just blacken a case with an Edding marker pen or lamp black, push it in the chamber, and then you will see where the problem lies.
So you will need some way to size the case to the correct shape.
IMO no way around getting a full length sizing die, but a warning:
in my case the regular RCBS dies did not work ("wrong taper"), I had to buy a custom die set from Triebel in Germany.
If working with resized 9,3x72R cases you might have an eye on neck wall thickness, too.
Crimping in the bullet will definitely not be necessary.
To my knowledge the 8x72R never was intended for .323 *"S" bullets.
So I'd be really careful with bullet choice.
fuhrmannLast edited by fuhrmann; 03-19-2016, 09:12 AM.Comment
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I've had a similar experience with two rifles, where the case body was a tad too big. I ended up having to make a sizing die or alter an existing die to take the case body down that few thousandths. I also learned to anneal the case body first because the first two cases I sized had longitudinal splits and the brass I ended up using was too expensive to accrue almost any loss.Comment
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Thank you for the reply. I did not really think there was a shoulder, although I had read somewhere that there was some version of 8x72R with a shoulder. I don't see one in the chamber, just the expected taper. I have decided to go ahead and make a cast of the chamber and bore, just so I know what I am working with. I hate the idea of having to get a custom die set. I do not intend to do much shooting with this drilling, although that might change if I can get a scope mounted. This gun has never had a scope, but I have been thinking of putting a period-correct claw mount on it, if I can find the parts. I already have the perfect scope. I guess the next question is if anyone has the correct cartridge and chamber specs, so that after I get my chamber cast, I can compare it?Comment
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If COTW is to be believed here is their dimensions
Rim .483
Head .429
OAL 2.840
neck .344
The don't have the shoulder diameter or the length from base to shoulder. Donnely's probably does.Comment
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thanks for the data. I did a cast, and compared that with the brass I got from Buffalo Arms. Everything fits except the top 12 mm of the cartridge. At that point, the brass does not taper any more, but the chamber does. But at the neck, it is just 4/1000ths of an inch too big. The bore of the barrel is .308, and .320 in the grooves. I guess I will have to get some .318 projectiles. What would be the ideal weight?Comment
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So you just need to find some way to resize that neck part of the case.
I'd start with the indicated bullet weight of 13 grams, or 200 grains.
fuhrmannComment
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Toadboy,
A 32 Win spec. sizer might work for you, if you don't use the expander button(neck only), or maybe 32 S&W( if not seater, sizer). Once you get the cases small enough and fireformed, you shouldn't have any more problems, unless you need to turn/ream the necks to use .320 bullets.
MikeComment
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