HUBERTUS by Imman Meffert

[MARAT]

Mike!
before molding we heated the end of barrels and the chamber too. So I think? that we didn't have solidification contraction. there are real sizes( it's my opinion).
Tomorrow , i'll ask y ou and other about interesting " cigaret" with pulver inside, from another cartridge....
"

[MARAT]

Sorry, gentlemen!
You are discussing about bullet cartridge, and what is your opinion about the only gun and it's engraving??
I think, not every month you have seen such guns......

[Axel E]

Am I correct to believe we both agree that the rifle is chambered for 11.15x60R?
Mike

Yes!
Waidmannsheil!
Axel

[Axel E]

Sorry, gentlemen!
You are discussing about bullet cartridge, and what is your opinion about the only gun and it's engraving??
I think, not every month you have seen such guns......

Not every month, but from time to time......
The gun obviously has seen very hard times. The condition is very worn now, but restorable. The engraving is typical 19th century Meffert with Acanthus leaves and nice animal scenes. You need a really good gunsmith to make the right hammer and screw, make and engrave a correct buttplate screw, remove the terrible monogram, repair the split near the stock's toe, clean and refinish(at least the wood) the thing.

[MARAT]

in my mind, Germany people are so pedantiс , that they couldn't proof incorrect size of bullet at watertable of barrels?!
according to the digits 67/49 it must be 10,45 mm caliber, but in practice it is 11,15 mm.
Where is truth?

[Axel E]

67/49 means a diameter in between gauge number 67,49 = 10.41 mm = .410" and gauge number 62,78 = 10.67 mm = .420" . This is neither the groove nor the bullet diameter, but was measured at the proofhouse using cylindrical plug gages. It is the smallest diameter of the barrel between the lands of the rifling. You have to add two times the depth of the rifling grooves to get close to the bullet diameter. On old rifles there may have been some wear of the rifling lands. So an old barrel now may accept a larger cylindrical plug now.

[mike ford]

MARAT,
In a posting, above, you said you would ask about : interesting "cigarette" with pulver inside, from another cartridge.... I haven't seen this question yet, but I think you might be asking about pre-measured/weighed packets of powder, wrapped in paper(nitrated?); for load/reloading ammunition. These are known as "Einzelladungen" in German and were widely used for loading 8.15x46R ammunition for target rifles( sometimes during a match, using the same case). Americans sometimes confuse "einzelladungen"(singleloading) for "einzellader"(singleloader), which means a single shot.
Mike

[MARAT]

Mike!
Sorry, only today I took this cartridge and made pictures

[MARAT]

DSC_1021.jpgDSC_1022.jpgDSC_1023.jpgDSC_1024.jpg

what type of pulver is inside?

[mike ford]

MARAT,
Axel may correct or add to what I think, but it seems this is :0.8 grams of a smokeless TROISDORFER( a brand name) Target Powder. Of course, other types and/or weights of powder would have also been available.
Mike

[MARAT]

Ok, waiting Axel's verdict...

[Axel E]

Mike is right.

[MARAT]

DSC_1025.jpgif I right understand, cartridge 11,15 x 60R has 25 grams bullet and 5 grams of black powder. My bullet from bullet mold is 20-21 grams, so I must put 20 grams of black powder? Am I right ??

[mike ford]

MARAT,
I stay away from black powder, for my own handloading of cartridges; so you would be much better served by other people's advice. Several of the others have experience loading black powder, I believe Diz,Jon,Axel, Steve and others have experience; but I believe Sharps4590 has considerable experience loading blackpowder for competition. I will make a couple points, however. Your question makes it seem that you believe you should use the same charge weight of blackpowder in a cartridge, as the bullet weight. While I remember an old "rule of thumb" for round ball muzzle loading rifles, that the powder should cover the ball( in the hand), this does not apply to cartridges at all, and would apply to volume rather than weight, anyway. The second point is, while the chart you posted is very interesting; you cannot use it directly for loading data. My friends that do use considerable amounts of blackpowder, inform me that the powders available today are considerably different that the older powders, which were often cleaner and more powerful. This makes it even more important to listen to the people that are experienced with powder that is available today.
Mike

[Axel E]

Marat, you apparently misinterpreted the old DWM catalog page. It is to be read: DWM order number 174: 11.15x60R, loaded with 5 gramm black powder and a lead bullet 27.5 mm long, bullet weight 25 gramm. As any black powder load fills the case completely, you should stick to a 5 gramm maximum, regardless of the lead bullet weight.