Anton Kohle Sporter

[Hook]

I am hoping that some of you well informed gentlemen might be able to give me some information about a nice German sporter I traded into. It is not a collector by any stretch. It has been extensively modified since it was built, with mods to add a scope, side swing safety, and sling swivel studs. It apparently was a copy of the Mauser Type S, but the front of the stock has been shortened, probably due to wood damage. Although not a collectible, it is perfect for me because I love the old classics and like to use them. Since my eyes have long since passed the use of irons for hunting, a scope is a necessity.

It is of German make with a barrel inscription of "Anton Kohle Epfendorf Buchsenmacherei". After googling for awhile, I found that this translates to Anton Kohle of Epfendorf Germany (about 4 miles from Oberndorf) buchsenmacherei = gunsmith. The action is pure 98 with the Mauser banner rolled across the top forward action ring. This was obviously a local gunsmith that obtained all of his parts from the Mauser factory in Oberndorf to build his products. It is an 8X57.
　
Here is a comment I have received from another source:

"Pics of the receiver markings would help but you have pretty much nailed it. A Type S copy. Probably was a full stock that was latter shortened for whatever reason. Either personal preference or to fix a broken stock maybe?

Markings indicate it was Nitro Proofed in January 1943 at the Suhl proof house. A Banner Mauser action would have been proofed at the Oberndorf a.N. proofhouse. The Nitro marking and Suhl marking were used from 1039 to 1945. The date of proof is consistent with that. The SN is not an Oberdorf SN. Probably marked with stylized AK suffix to denote the maker (A)nton (K)ohle."

And some pictures:









Any information about Anton Khole or this rifle would be greatly appreciated.

[Hook]

OK, being new here I just learned that only four pics can be posted in a post. I had to cut three out of the above and am including them here:

[mike ford]

Hook,
If your rifle were built from a commercial action, it should have an Oberndorf serial number behind the recoil lug, and on the back of the magazine box. I suspect it was built in Suhl, using an action from a military rifle( Mauser "banner" military rifles were sold to several foreign governments), for marketing by the gunsmith on the barrel. If he was located near Oberndorf and built the rifle, he would likely have had it proofed at the Oberndorf proof house( now located at Ulm) rather than send it to Suhl. Also, it is likely that the forearm is in it's original form (although it has been refinished). This form is not the most common, but it is seen often enough that I would not call it very rare. Americians are often surprised that sporting guns were still being produced at this time. You mentioned hunting deer in another thread, you are going to find that the 8x57 is a very good cartridge and you will enjoy hunting with it. Of course, what I think is not the "last word" and Axel or someone else might have an entirely different opinion, as might I, if I could examine it.
Mike

[Hook]

Thanks for the input, Mike. I really hope that some more info on Mr. Kohle will come to light. The rifle is what it is, and I like it that way. Although I can understand the satisfaction of owning an original 'between the wars' sporter, I don't really enjoy a rifle unless I can hunt with it. Without a scope, I can't hunt with it, so.....

I've been hunting with the 8mm for several years now and have taken two deer with it. One rifle is a Mexican 1936 sporter that was rebarreled with an 8X57 bbl off a small ring Turkish Mauser (it has since rebarreled back to 7X57). The other is an almost completely unmarked cigarette rifle, a small ring M98. I will soon put up pics of the cigarette rifle to see if y'all can shed some light on it.

This Kohle rifle shoots the first shot to a very consistent 2" above the POA. Each shot after that drops about an inch and a half. A five shot group will usually steadily drop vertically about 6-8 inches. If I can get in the woods in January, I'll be using it with the intent of getting it done with the first shot. I'll try to figure out the reason for the vertical displacement after then.

You list your location as East AL. My lease could be close to you....west Tallapoosa County on Yates Lake.

[Axel E]

I have the name of the gunsmith as "Anton Köhler (with Umlaut ö), Epfendorf on Neckar", mentioned in the late 1930s. The receiver with the big Mauser banner and the worker's stamps underneath seems to be from a Mauser military "Standardmodell" , exported in vast numbers to China from the 1920s up to 1940. The star on the recoil lug indicates it to be a rejected receiver due to minor dimensional differences. The little bit of line engraving on the receiver ring does not look like "Mauser factory" to me. The bottom metal is of military, not commercial production too. The stock looks like a shortened S-type carbine stock indeed. what is the barrel length of your rifle? If longer than 50 cm = 20", the stock was probably shortened by Köhler himself. The bolt handle is of modified military shape also. Barrel, sights, bases and front sling swivel look like Mauser commercial again.
IMHO Anton Köhler was originally employed by the nearby Mauser factory, but laid off like many others when the factory was on hard times after WW1. So he had to set up on his own during the interwar years. Maybe he worked again for Mauser during WW2, but kept up his own small business as a side job. Alas, he was still a licensed gunmaker. He himself or through "old friends" scrounged up rejected, but salvageable parts from the factory and built this rifle. The then proof law required each gun to be marked with the name or the known trademark of the maker. For obvious reasons he could not bring this rifle, put together from Mauser factory parts, to the Oberndorf proofhouse, inside the Mauser factory. So he sent it to Suhl for proof.

[Axel E]

This Kohle rifle shoots the first shot to a very consistent 2" above the POA. Each shot after that drops about an inch and a half. A five shot group will usually steadily drop vertically about 6-8 inches.

To me the most likely reason: You shoot the 5 shots in rather fast sequence. The barrel heats up and expands lengthwise. As it is fastened by the sling swivel and it's band to the foreend, which does not lengthen with the barrel, it is put under stress and bends slightly down. From shot to shot the barrel heats up more and bends down more.

[mike ford]

Hook,
The rifle seems to have screw on mount bases , and if you don't have the rings, there shouldn't be a problem to just use new mounts. You might be able to find rings that can be adapted to your bases, if they are the same height. Woody, at Sure Shot in Alexander City may be able to help you with that. There is no doubt in my mind that you can mount a scope on that rifle and make it useable. Even if it had collector value, what I suggested wouldn't hurt it, since it could be undone. Tallapoosa County is next to Chambers County, where I live. I have a cousin that lives at Lake Martin, but I'm not familiar with Yates Lake. I suspect if you relieve the forearm ahead of the swivel stud, a small amount, so it doesn't put pressure on the barrel as it warms, some of the problem of moving point of impact will go away.
Mike

[Hook]

Axel, I suspect that you are correct on the cause of the vertical stringing. It makes sense, anyway. As I said, I plan to look into a solution for it at the end of our deer season. If it proves to be too difficult to fix, I'll just use it as is. It places the first shot from a cold barrel into the same spot every time, and the second shot is only down an inch or so. If I can't do the job with two shots, I'll give up hunting. I never intend for this rifle to punch small groups into paper, just one hole through a deer.

It is disturbing to hear that the action is a cull, whether because of minor dimensional differences or not. I mean, I knew the thing wasn't a Mauser factory sporter when I traded for it, but I did think it would have been made of first rate material. Despite that, I have grown very attached to it and can't wait to blood it. And Axel, the barrel is very close to 20". Probably a metric length, but I don't really remember exactly. The barrel marking shows the spelling as Kohle, not Kohler:




The photo isn't very clear, but it shows no 'r' on the end of the name. That is an interesting speculation on Mr. Kohle's work and probably is very accurate. Sure wish there was more info out there. I suppose quite a bit of information was lost during the war. Oberndorf and the surrounding area had to have been a prime target of Allied bombing.

Mike, the rifle had Talley bases and rings on it when I traded. I immediately mounted a 2X7 Leupold scope on it and all shooting was done with it in place. I am very familiar with the Sure Shot in Alex City. Haven't been in the new store but a couple of times but it sure is a big step up from the old place. If Woody is the owner, I've talked to him many times. Never asked his name. Very interesting fellow and seems to lean toward the older stuff, kind of like you and I do. Although I live in Slapout, I have a lake house on Martin. Yates Lake, and the lease, starts at the foot of Martin Dam and extends down toward Tallassee on the east side of Yates. My lake house is about 10 minutes from the lease and serves as a hunting lodge in the winter.

[Hook]

Axel, I remeasured the barrel and the length is right at 19-9/16". Also, I have tried to take a better pic of the barrel markings. As you can see, the roll marks are very light and hard to read.






And Mike, here is a pic of the scope and rings in place:

[mike ford]

Hook,
It sounds like you have a great setup, with your lease and lake house. After the season is over, maybe you can come over to our area and shoot some. We are set up to shoot from 10 to almost 500 yards, mostly on steel targets, but also paper at 100 and 200 yards for sighting in. Somebody is there most every Saturday morning, shooting targets, or carpenter bees and turtles, drinking coffee, and telling hunting lies. This is not a lease, but is my great grandfathers place with some additions, now owned by my cousin. Mostly we are gun nuts that hunt so we have an excuse to get another rifle, or pistol. My cousin bought the materials and the hunters built a cabin at the pond that we use for a lodge. All in all, we have a "big time".
Mike

[Hook]

Oh my! You may have screwed up, Mike. All I can safely get on my property (at my house, not on the lease) is 100 yds. Even then I had to build a berm as a bullet stop. If you let this camel get his nose under the tent at your 500 yd range, you may not be able to get rid of me.

[mike ford]

Hook,
Just come on. One of my friends shoots the 500 yd gong with iron sights and the 400 yd steel Buffalo with a pistol( he doesn't hit it every time, but enough to make it fun). I mostly watch the ones that can really shoot, and just "ooh and aah".
Mike

[Hook]

To me the most likely reason: You shoot the 5 shots in rather fast sequence. The barrel heats up and expands lengthwise. As it is fastened by the sling swivel and it's band to the foreend, which does not lengthen with the barrel, it is put under stress and bends slightly down. From shot to shot the barrel heats up more and bends down more.

Axel, your logic sounds reasonable to me. Here is the last target I fired with the Kohle. As you can see, the holes march progressively downward each shot. These five shots were fired at a slow, but steady, rate less than two minutes apart with no effort to allow the barrel to cool down. Just fire, eject the case, put it in the box, chamber the next round, sight, and fire again. The total spread is 6 inches or more. What a bummer. However, the good news is that the sights remain reasonable for the first three shots at any range I am likely to use this rifle on deer. If I ever do need a second, or even third, shot, I should still be 'minute of boiler room' on the animal. Sure hope I don't have to depend on the fifth shot in this group......

I pulled the rifle apart this morning to look at the sling band and stud again. It has been glass bedded into the stock with absolutely no wiggle room at all. It will constrict even the slightest metal expansion from heat. As I stated above, this rifle will not be used to target shoot. It is a hunting rifle. As long as I can depend on the first shot or two repeating as below, I am unlikely to mess with it. If my first shot starts be unpredictable, the sling stud will be relieved so as not to constrict the wood/metal interaction.

[algmule]

Hook,
This is but a mere suggestion as to whose name is stamped on the barrel of your rifle. Couldn´t find anything on him being a gunsmith but it´s interesting to note that the fellow in the quotes was not only a mechanic but also a conductor.
“Köhle,Anton (Mechaniker, Dirigent)
geb. am 4. Juni1902
LetzteDienststelle: Epfendorf/N”

“Köhle,Anton aus Epfendorf Kreis Rottweil am Neckar; Altoberndorfam Neckar
geb. am 4. Juni 1902 in Epfendorf Kreis Rottweil am Neckar”

Since I´m rubbish at computers you´ll have to copy andpaste the link below. It takes you to another Anton Köhle marked rifle.
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt/langwaffen~repetierer/99e37yqq_repetierbuechse_anton_koehle-.html?s=31

Kind regards
Peter

[Hook]

Interesting.....maybe that is why this little rifle has been music to my ears!