Another type of die

[Diz]

For those of you that may be interested in making your own bullets here is another “type” of bullet die that I use. The picture below shows the die assembled with the first completed bullet alongside. This set up is for making bullets for my friends .470 Capstick. They are 600 grain.

470 IIII.jpg

The jacket is made from a cut down .308 Win case with the rim turned off to form a boat tail. This isn’t necessary but I did it to start. I clean the inside of the deprimed case and coat it with soldering flux. Then I fill it with #8 hard shot and heat the whole thing until the shot melts and let it cool. This anneals the case head and body and gives me a bonded core. The primer pocket gets filled but it has no effect I can tell. The length of the jacket is a trial and error affair. Below is shown the bullet body die and the punch. The body die is bored to finish at .474” and the punch is machined to fit the bore and the boat tail.

470 bullet II.jpg

The next picture is the point die. The point die is a very close fit to the body die to keep things concentric. Note there is no ejection pin but this type doesn’t stick. I think it is because of the bullet shape and that there is only a small portion of the bullet in it. Although others I have made work like this too.

470 bullet III.jpg

I press it in the shop press with the whole thing stacked together and the bullet in the die. Then I pop off the point die and press out the finished bullet. Easy as pie!

470 Capstick Bullet Prototype.jpg

Thanks, Diz

[don't]

Diz,

Very nicely done. I do have a question regarding your comment on the brass annealing by heating to melt the lead shot then letting it cool. When I anneal case necks I hear the brass cherry red and then immediately quench in cold water. This softens the case neck for sizing, stretching, etc. It was my understanding that this quick temperature change is what softens the brass. Do you find the slow cooling does the same??

Thanks,
Don

[sharps4590]

Well done Diz, as usual.

[Diz]

Don,

Thanks for the question, I think there are two schools of thought on annealing as you mention. Those that quench and those that don’t but I have found both techniques work although I also think that quenching makes it a bit softer and easier to work. That isn’t based on anything scientific but how the case seems to process during sizing and later firing.

Like I mentioned the jacket length is trial and error to get the length and filling just right. I use fine shot for two reasons. One, each pellet changes the weight by about two grains so you can get very close to the target weight. Second, magnum shot is pretty hard and doesn’t require any added alloy. I can scoop it up with the case, put it on the scale and then drop in a couple of pellets to make weight. I usually go over a little because I lose some dross during the soldering process outlined below.

I have a heavy piece of square stock that I clamp in a vise and then stand the filled cases on it. I heat the bases with a propane torch until all the lead melts and then keep heating for a bit. It is quite arbitrary but seems to be OK for this process. After heating I stir the lead with a thin finishing nail and draw off the dross. This is the hardest part because of the boat tail on these. Since they are filled to the top, you have to have a very steady hand that day.

I think the steel they are standing on acts like a heat sink and draws the heat away as well. Not a quench but faster than sitting on a piece of asbestos for instance. Either way I can expand the case head without much trouble after that. A cartridge this soft would most certainly be dangerous if fired!

Sorry for the drawn out explanation but you should have the details.

Sharps, thanks for the nice comment I appreciate it. Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
Great job, The "bonding" is pretty much the same as my late friend, Gene, used in making his .358" bullets for the 358 Enterkin Mag., except he used pure lead cores , swaged to precise weights in what he called the "squirt die". It seems that since the resulting cores have two square ends, you should be able to make a die that would produce precise cores that may be useable in different diameter bullets. It seems your method should be useful to make 9.3 and 9.5mm bullets from .38/.357/ 9mm cases, or 10.75/ .404 Jef. bullets from 30-30 cases. Cast bullets are wonderful for most uses, but sometimes tougher bullets are desired.
Don's
It is not really necessary to get the cases "cherry red", there is a danger of making them too soft(burn?), so that they collapse in on them selves in sizing/forming. I avoid softening the head area by holding the cases in my bare fingers while heating them. You can't hold the case with your fingers until it gets hot enough to soften the head, but care still must be exercised to avoid burning the neck area.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

All excellent points and I did make one with a weep hole once for my 577-450. I was converting 45 caliber cast to smooth sided paper patched with a recessed base for the patch twist. They were a little heavy as cast so the hole was necessary but you needed a "positive stop" under the base punch to stop it at the right weight. Washers and shims did the trick for that. Drilling the hole was pretty easy by using a larger drill to start and only leaving about a 1/8" partition to drill through with that really thin vent drill. I don't have these anymore or I would post pictures.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz, you are absolutely correct that a positive "stop" of some kind is necessary for precise and repeatable results. The Corbin die that Gene used was adjustable and could produce different weight cores. By the way, after years of sorting finished bullets into different lots, weighing within 0.1 grain of each other, his son-in-law suggested adjusting the weight during the core seating step, using the small pieces of core material from the "squirt" die. This resulted in bullets weighing the same ( within 0.1gr) from box to box. This made marketing much easier. Your willingness to experiment with this and show your tooling and results has added to the education of all the rest of us.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

Right on all points again. I use lead wire to make my cores and have an adjustable cutter that can slice them off at very close tolerance so I don't get much of a squirt. But I do weigh the jacket and core and juggle the combination to optimize the weight. Is it actually worth the effort, I am not sure since I really haven't shot any home made jacketed bullets that varied by more than a quarter grain. With cast I don't worry that much generally but there may be something to gain.

I really appreciate your comments and I am glad that I am able to help anyone that is working on similar problems. Right now I am working on other things but when I get back to the 9.3 and the 12.7 I will report the progress.

Thanks again, Diz