Need information on a Simson shotgun

[Gunnut86]

I recently acquired a Simson 16 gauge SxS shotgun. It is the first German gun I have owned. The workmanship appears to be great! Very nice engraving. I'm hoping you guys can give me some information on when it was made, model number, etc. The barrels are 30 5/8 inches long with 2 9/16 chambers. There are no markings on top of the barrels or rib. I am attaching pictures of all the markings on the barrels and receiver. It needs the forend hardware or a replacement forend. The one that came with it only has the latch. It also needs a trigger guard. Any help on where I might find parts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ray

[Gunnut86]

More pictures

Here are additional pictures. Let me know if any other pictures would help.

[mike ford]

Gunnut86,
You have a pretty interesting shotgun. The markings "Simson-Jaeger Verschluss", with Patent information, means it was built on a Franz Jaeger designed locking system action. The main difference between this and other actions is the twin under lugs. This type action has several advantages, especially when used in a drilling. Franz Jaeger was the grandfather of the GGCA's beloved founder, Dietrich Apel. We are always delighted to see one of these actions. In addition to the Jaeger name, the Simson story is very interesting and, at times, very sad. You should be able to find these stories in previous earlier posting on this forum and in articles in "Der Waffenschmied" and "Waidmannsheil". The 16 in a circle means it is chambered for the short shells, as you noted. The 16 and 16/1 (no circle) is the measured bore diameter, ahead of the chambers. The crown W on the left barrel means it is choked (amount not shown, but usually pretty tight). The crown S means it was proofed to use shot. The crown U means it passed the "view proof", which is really a detailed inspection and verification of dimensions.
Restoration of this gun won't be especially complicated, but will require a considerable amount of skill and experience with German guns. The most difficult will be replacing the forearm "iron". I suggest you choose one of the firms shown in the "Trade Directory" in "Waidmannsheil" or New England Custom Guns to do the work.
Mike

[Gunnut86]

Thanks Mike!

[Gunnut86]

Do you have an idea of when this gun was made?

[mike ford]

Gunnut86,
I do have an Idea of when this gun was made, but I am often wrong when the proof date is not marked. That, in itself is a hint, as is the patent date and "non proofmark" markings on the barrel. Others on the forum are more familiar with these than am I. Maybe one of them will chime in later.
Mike

[Gunnut86]

Hi Mike, what are your thoughts on when this gun was made?

[mike ford]

Gunnut86,
The gun shows proofmarks that were used from 1891 until 1939, it does not show the nitro proofmark for shotguns used from 1908 until 1939. This seems to show that it was made between 1891 and 1908. However this may be disputed by someone else, especially if the cited patent was granted after 1908. I don't have a record of this, but I think others do.
Mike

[Gunnut86]

Update

Hi Mike, I want to give you guys an update. I modified a LC Smith forearm iron to fit this forend. I also fitted a Merkel trigger guard. It has made a nice little dove gun.20161009_191309.jpg

[Steve Whitley]

The "LK" mark seen between the barrels on the underside appears to be the same mark used in the early 1930s on some rifle barrel work documented to Louis Kelber.
Steve

[mike ford]

Gunnut86,
Great, I'm happy you got it "running".
Mike

[Axel E]

what are your thoughts on when this gun was made?

As the gun is made to Franz Jaeger's 1904 DRPatent # 176578 in conjunction with his 1905 DRGM (protected design) # 239934, and Simson called their Simson – Jaeger shotgun "Modell 1909", it was certainly made 1909 to 1914.

[Gunnut86]

Thank you all for the information. Much appreciated!

[crs]

Gunnut86,
You may get some help by buying the "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" to help decode any marks on your gun.
This helped me learn the meaning of the marks on my Simson Suhl . My .405 double rifle was built on a Simson 12 ga action and is a very stout and handy rifle:

[Gunnut86]

Very nice. Thanks!