Where to buy German style scope mounts.

[mike ford]

Leatherman,
I live in East Alabama, I think it is Diz that lives close to you. I am interested in the 8x58R Sauer. I bought a drilling in 8x57R/360 last year and am thinking about an article comparing these two similar cartridges, but needed an 8x58R to work up the data for the article. My old friend and mentor Gene Enterkin had one that I think his grandson now has. Maybe he will let me borrow it, if I can contact him. I like the 6.5x57R, a lot. They usually had a fast twist barrel for the heavy bullets, I suggest you use one for your project. I usually use lighter bullets for Alabama Whitetail, but if I was going after Elk with the 6.5 I would go heavy. It seems we have similar interests and I would enjoy your articles.
Mike

[Peter K]

Peter, you will need to lower your velocity to get the barrels to come together if they are shooting apart (crossing). If you can't get good results try going to a heavier bullet and start over. I am with you on taking all my German guns out and taking something with them.

This gun is a real Kyber Pass effort. My friend rifles 50 caliber barrels as a winter project. I had him install two in a 12 gauge Belgian hammer gun with the barrels cut off except for the action part. The chamber is reamed with a 7mm Rem Mag reamer and the corresponding brass has the neck cut off and is topped with a 400 grain round nose cast bullet. We load it up with a small dose of 4198 and get 1230 ft/sec which is plenty. The barrels were never regulated. This is what we do when it's too cold to go to the range.

[Diz]

Peter,

Sounds like a great project and depending on how the muzzles are assembled it may be fairly easy to regulate. Of course "loading it in" to regulation may be easier if they are shooting on the same plane. As far as the 6.5 goes I have had excellent results with the Hornady 160 grain Interlock (#2640) they are very accurate and hold together. Good luck with your projects and hope to hear more about them.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

On the first page of this thread I mentioned a system, by EAW that converts claw mount bases to a swing mount system, that would be cheaper than new claw mount rings. Today, there was a new thread under "Gun and Proof Marks", by "matesar", requesting ID of a gun. The gun in this thread has had the system I mentioned installed in earlier claw mount bases. It would be good to look closely at this alternative system.
Mike

[Leatherman]

This answers Jager01 question on where to get scope rings for his claw mount system but one will still need to have the .EAW conversion bases filed to fit the claw bases which there are so many variations of widths and heights between front and rear. Unless you try doing it yourself you will still need a good gunsmith to do the work for you so this isn't going to be a cheap alternative, (the cost of the EAW base conversion kit plus the scope rings $$$$$), just a more modern one. My version cost $40 for a set of leupold or similar high rings. The rest is ,the labor of milling and final filling of the claws to fit. That is the point I was making and you can get the scope down closer to the bases for a better cheek weld and eye alignment with the scope. Granted you give up the see-through mounts if that means anything to you.

[mike ford]

Leatherman,
I'm not putting down your work or system at all, infact, I'm impressed that you took the initiative and had the skill to do the work . Of course we have different opinions about some features, but they are formed from different experiences, and others may have still different experience and opinion. It is true that the rear EAW base would require fitting, it wouldn't be nearly as difficult, since epoxy can be used. In any case, whether you use factory parts, shop made parts, or the EAW parts, the most important and critical "fit" is in the front base. By using swing mounts, the choice of a scope is not nearly as critical and you are no longer limited to "straight tube" models. It has been my experience that it is important to have the highest magnification possible in a scope, while having an exit pupil diameter of at least 7mm. This usually requires a larger than "straight tube" scope. Seeing your earlier work, there is no doubt you can make the swing mount parts necessary and not have to buy EAW parts.
Mike

[bro.steve]

I have been told that Champlin Arms in Enid OK can make claw rings for about $300 if you already have the bases on the gun. Hope I have not been misinformed. Mike, I think the thread over on DoubleGun was by Oskar. Leatherman, I would like to have you hold forth in all the detail we can coax out of you--good work!! Steve

[bro.steve]

BTW would anyone like to take this thread in the direction of mounting for rail scopes...seems to be few who can do it on this side of the pond.

[Diz]

bro.steve,

My experience has been limited to the Swarovski SR rail system and scopes but I find they are very easy to mount and use by taking all the usual precautions during the setup. Also a lot of their bases fit the pre-drilled and tapped receivers and make mounting a simple operation. They are definitely strong and very repeatable for alignment. I believe they also make bases for the Suhl claw mount system although I have no experience with them at all.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

If I understand bro.steve correctly, the question is about claw mounts for those scopes with dovetail rails. The lower powered scopes have a rail on the tube only, and higher powered ones have one on the objective bell , as well. Instead of rings, these scopes are mounted with clawmount "feet" that have a dovetail milled into the top. They are attached by screws that are partly in and partly outside the dovetail. This requires experience, knowhow, and some special (although simple) equipment. It is otherwise very likely that when drilling for this screw, the drill "bit" will "run out" and mess things up. As best as I can tell, modern rail mounted scopes may have a different profile for the rail, that allows attachment by a clamping system, instead.
Mike

[Diz]

mike,

The Swarovski SR is a fairly modern system with rails built into the scope along with sort of serrated area that engages against recoil. The claw mount I am referring to is part of their system and differs from what you are talking about. As I said I have no experience with rail mounts other than these. Do you have any photos you could share? I would like to know more.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
It sounds like the system you have is the more modern system, mentioned as clamping to the scope. In the change over of computers, I haven't been able to transfer my pictures, because of malware in the old one. I haven't learned how to post them here anyway. If you look in the "parts" section of Ernst Apel Wuerzburg(EAW) or Rechtnagel (ERA) sites, or maybe New England Custom Guns, the older system will be clear. As they will also have the newer system's parts, you can compare them there. Henneberger in Muennerstadt also has clamp type mounts for modern scopes with rails.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

I hope everyone is OK with us going off on this thread and sorry to hear about your computer. I have attached a couple of photos from the Swarovski site and kept all the names etc. so as not to infringe on anyone. One is an assortment of their bases and a view of the underside of their scope. The other is a single that looks like a QD that is marked "Recknagel". I find this most interesting. I used a set very much like the ones in the foreground on a ZKK-602 that I sold. They fit the dovetail on the bridge perfectly and went back to zero every time. I have used others that needed to be drilled and tapped. It seems that not many guys know about these mounts and scopes outside of this community.

Thanks, Diz



Swarovski_SR_Rail_Mounts_-assorted.jpg



Swarovski_SR_Rail_Mounts_Recknagel.jpg

[Diz]

Mike,

I hope everyone is OK with us going off on this thread and sorry to hear about your computer. I have attached a couple of photos from the Swarovski site and kept all the names etc. so as not to infringe on anyone. One is an assortment of their bases and a view of the underside of their scope. The other is a single that looks like a QD that is marked "Recknagel". I find this most interesting. I used a set very much like the ones in the foreground of the assortment photo on a ZKK-602 that I stupidly sold. They fit the dovetail on the bridge perfectly and went back to zero every time. I have used others that needed to be drilled and tapped. It seems that not many guys know about these mounts and scopes outside of this community.

Thanks, Diz



Swarovski_SR_Rail_Mounts_-assorted.jpg



Swarovski_SR_Rail_Mounts_Recknagel.jpg

[mike ford]

Diz,
I'm not the one that runs the forum, so I don't know if we have gone off the thread; it seems like we are still talking about German style scope mounts. The photos you included look very much like the system I mentioned Henneberger is marketing. I'm not surprised the bottom one is marked Rechnagel, they make many different items to support the gunsmithing profession. When Herr Rechnagel was living, he was very proactive in keeping current with all new developments by others, and I'm sure his daughter is also.
Mike