Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Re-using Insert barrels (Einstecklaufen)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re-using Insert barrels (Einstecklaufen)

    Hi guys,
    I asked this question as part of another thread, but a lot of people might have missed it because of that. I think it would benefit being a stand-alone question as I'm sure quite a few people would like to at least know the answer to the question, and some perhaps even to act on this advice, namely: Can used full-length insert barrels be re-used in another shotgun other than the one they were custom made for?

    Full-length insert barrels are very expensive to buy new, more than a modest quality new gun in many cases, and they are custom fitted to the shotgun gauge, barrel length and I would imagine also the choke of the gun they were intended for. We are not talking here about the short 44cm and similar inserts that are now seldom sold, but rather full-length to the muzzle inserts. These are sold in a variety of low-intensity, low back-pressure cartridges, such as .22 Hornet, 5,6x52R (.22 Savage), 5,6x50R, 6x70R Norma and so on. Being muzzle-length the best of them are adjustable at the muzzle for windage and elevation. But therein lies the rub: getting a used one that is exactly the right length, down to the last 1/2" or cm is going to be a challenge in an on-line auction.

    Can they be shortened? Is it just a case of unscrewing or perhaps un-soldering either the chamber end or the muzzle end and re-cutting the barrel to length, then rethreading, (or re-soldering) it to fit the new host-barrel length? So for instance, a 63,5cm insert for sale would be a good buy for someone wanting to fit it to a 60cm Kurz-Drilling. Or is this length fixed and "not negotiable".

    And what of the choke? Is there enough adjustment (or can the muzzle end be adapted), so that the second-hand insert can be made to fit a 1/2 choke barrel when it came originally from a full-choke barrel, and visa-versa? I never see any comment about the original choke in those offered for sale, just the gauge and length.

    I'm guessing that most good gunsmiths would know intuitively how to mill out part of the firearms' extractor, to mount the inserts own extractor so as to both index it and also to lift the cartridges out of the insert when the gun is broken open. That part I get! But what of the chamber? These vary somewhat even within a gauge. So again, does the second-hand insert need to be sleeved up or turned down to fit snug?

    Obviously, I could order one of these and find out by trial and error, but the high cost of export permits from Germany in particular means that I would sooner do this once with the knowledge I can make my purchase fit first time. I have been told that in fact it might be easier to send the barrel, if not the whole gun, back to Germany to have a new one fitted and regulated there. But there are enough full-length inserts for sale second-hand on Egun and etc., to make me think that there is another viable option.

    Would someone who knows these particular inserts well, or who has been down this path, care to comment?

  • #2
    Kiwi_bloke,
    I answered the other thread, so I will wait this time and see if Axel or one of our other German members reply. In the meantime, I suggest you review the website of some of the makers/sellers of full length Einstecklaufs, such as Zimmermann, Henneberger,K&S, Waffen Jagd, etc. BTW, full length einstecklaufs are available in other than "low intensity, low back pressure cartridges", they are available for a wide range of cartridges from .17RF to 9.3x74R(maybe also .375 H&H). Drillings are limited as to calibers( subject to size and type),but strong over/unders are not as limited.
    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      OK, perhaps I should be more specific and say full-length inserts for typical break-open Drillings. I'm aware of the other types you mention, but they don't fit simple standing breech designs.

      Comment


      • #4
        Kiwi_bloke,
        Of course they fit simple standing breech designs, such as drillings( also BF,BBF, BDF, etc). The first I heard of the full length einstecklaufs, was in 1981 when I was still living in Germany. I ran into an old friend, Hans Zimmermann, in another friend's gunshop. He had developed the first of these and was about to start marketing them. The one we talked about was in 9.3x74R, because I had my BBF fit up with double rifle barrels in that caliber before that(see " A Combination For all Seasons" in Waidmannsheil). He has since turned his business over to his son and son-in-law, and they have a website. In looking at websites of different makers and sellers, I could tell they use different means of regulating the point of impact. They might use a bushing that fits into the muzzle with spring loaded plungers and the barrel is moved within the bushing with 4 screws. Another method would be with the barrel attached to the bushing, and the bushing is moved within the muzzle with 4 screws. I have a short one that adjusts by means of an eccentric bushing and this should also work on a full length one.
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          I explored the einstecklauf route for my drillings, but as you have found cost is prohibitive. I was not looking at the full length versions, however. It is my understanding that they will be interchangeable with modern calibers to a certain degree. If you google einstecklauf you will find several post about fitting used ones.

          I wound up making my own, albeit simple, einstecklauf for my 9.3x72 drilling in 22k Hornet.
          www.myersarms.com

          Looking for Mauser tools and catalogs.

          Comment


          • #6
            kiwi_bloke,
            Since suggesting you look at EL makers, I have bought a new computer and can now call up my "favorites". The following are some sites that will show details of both ends of some makes of ELs. For Keppeler, try www.keppeler-te.de; for Keller & Simmann try www.einstecklauf.de ; for Zimmermann try www.zimmermann-waffen.info ; for Frankonia Jagd try www.frankonia.de ( they have both used and new EL for sale); for Henneberger try www.henneberger.de ( they changed their site and don't illustrate their EL any longer). If you don't read German and go through a translation site (Bing , etc.), be advised that the translations will be very "strained". "Einstecklauf" may come out as " plug in running" or "one put running". Other technical or terms of art will be just as "strained". My German is very poor, yet I find it easier to read the German than the translations. If the site, itself, has a translation, it will be very good.
            Mike

            Comment

            Working...
            X