Box Drilling Unknown Maker GG 749

[German Guns 749]

Hi, Can anyone give me information on this Box Drilling. Is this the correct term? Rifle over Shotgun 28ga. Not sure of the caliber of the rifle, but I have some proof mark shots. Hope they are clear enough. No maker name is evident. The action is activated by the leaver under the trigger guard and the barrel is pined to the receiver. Please see attached photos.

Thanks,

German Guns 749

Mark D

[German Guns 749]

Proof marks for Box Drilling

Markings Photos#4 Overubnder Rifle Shotgun 28 guage 11.jpg

Thanks,

GG 479

Mark D

[mike ford]

Mark,
The term "Box Drilling" is not the correct term for your gun. A drilling would have 3 barrels of some kind. The correct term for your o/u combination gun would be "Bockbuechseflinte"(Bock-over and under, buechse-rifle, flinte-shotgun).The proof marks you showed on the shotgun barrel, showing it is a 28 ga, proofed in Zella-Mehilis, in Dec. 1924.The proof marks on the rifle barrel show it to be chambered for 6.5x27R, a German cartridge in the class of the American 25-20.In my opinion, this would be a nice and fun gun to own.
Mike

[Axel E]

Your Bockbüchsflinte = over/under combination gun was, as Mike wrote, made by the Zella – Mehlis guntrade and first proofed 1224 = December 1924. It is not possible now to identify the real makers, as there were too many shops involved in making such guns. As the lower set of proofmarks, 5.4 mm Bore/land diameter and the B = proofload fired, G = bullet, U = Inspected for defects, show, the rifle barrel was originally in .22 Winchester center fire aka 5.6x35R Vierling. Mike wrote an article about this cartridge for the next "Waidmannsheil #56" of the GGCA. Ten years later the rifle barrel bore was ruined, so it was rebored, rerifled, reprooved in6.35 = June 1935 for the 6.5x27R cartridge. Shown by the second set of proofmarks, R = repair, U, G.
The 6.5x27R used an 82 gr bullet at 1575 fps. According to Nonte's book you can make 6.5x27R cases from .38 Special brass. Use .257 caliber bullets.
Here is the ad from Adolf Frank's, Hamburg, ca. 1930 "WUM" export catalog. Your gun conforms to Frank's own model number E98.

[German Guns 749]

Thanks for the information Mike. Any guess at value of this gun?

Thanks,

GG749

Mark D

[German Guns 749]

Thanks Alex. That's a great help in finding information about this gun!! Any thoughts about value?

Thanks,

GG479 Mark D

[Axel E]

Here in Germany, maybe up to about Euro 200.-, if you find someone interested in such an old varmint/pest gun.

[mike ford]

German Guns 749,
I don't usually estimate the value of someone else's gun, if I don't have it "in hand". Since Axel gave an estimate, I wouldn't argue with it. If it were my gun, I wouldn't sell it. In my opinion it would be a fun gun to have and load for. Axel is correct that Nonte made cases from 38 special. If I could find it, I think I would start with 22 Jet cases or 256 Win.Mag.as an alternative. I suspect, if they were common at the time Nonte was doing his work, he would have used them also. With these cases, the factory has done the difficult work of necking them down, without "buckling" the necks.
Mike

[Axel E]

Mike, of course you are right! The .22 Rem Jet may be the "ideal" case to make 6.5x27R brass by necking down and shortening. These cases did not come to my mind as both the .22 Jet and the .256 Win are about as "well known" over here as the 6.5x48R Sauer & Sohn or the 10.45 x45R Gruendig are in America. The .22 Jet is listed by noone over here, neither ammo nor cases. .256 Win cases are listed at least by our biggest dealer in handloading stuff, but are they in stock? A German may rather start with 5.6x50R brass, but shortening and reforming these will be even more problematic than starting with the common .38 Special.

[Diz]

I agree that this would be very interesting gun to load and shoot and very do-able. I checked my Quick Load and the 6.5 x 27R was listed so I ran some numbers and with a 70 grain bullet IMR4227 comes out on top with low pressure and good performance. Buffalo Arms has 22 Rem Jet and 256 Win. brass in stock but 38 Special should work too. I think the neck sizing will take the 38 length down to almost perfect but making the neck down on a 38 case may not be so easy. I didn't go looking for dies but in my opinion, if the barrel looks good I would try to get it shooting. One thing I am pretty sure about is you will be the only one at the range with one.

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

In picture #2 I'm curious about what appears to be brazing just forward of where the barrels leave the receiver and where the forearm scallop is. What's up with that?

[mike ford]

Vic,
Now that you mention it, I wonder also. I had thought it was just glare from the flash, but maybe not.
Mike

[Diz]

I'll leave it to the owner to make the final determination but it looks like a trick of the light to me. You can see the same sort of color on the front of the lever. It is a nice looking piece.

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

It is an interesting and attractive firearm. You're probably right as I hadn't noticed the same color on the operating lever. It sure stands out though.

[German Guns 749]

Thanks for all the information. It does sound like a very interesting project to get shooting again.

Thanks GG479 Mark D