Information about German drilling rifle sought

[Rick the Librarian2]

Some of you may know me from other forums, where my interest is mainly in U.S. military rifles (although I did pick up a nifty Mauser Gew98 not too long ago! ) However, I had a question regarding a German drilling rifle and I was told this was the best place to post it.

My son inherited this rifle from his grandfather who passed away some time ago. I did some checking online and it appears to be what is called a German "drilling rifle". It has two shotgun barrels, as you can see in the pictures. I'd guess either 16- or 20-gauge. It has a rifle barrel below that. It seems that these were most commonly in 9.3mm or 8mmx57, but this looks smaller. I tried a 6.5mm Swede and the bullet comes close to fitting, but not the case.

Some other things I found out:

1) While the barrels are marked "Krupp" and they were made by the famous steel and arms firm, they apparently made them for anyone who wanted the barrels - they didn't make the shotguns themselves.. I took photos of all markings I could see and I display them below.

2) The actual maker of the shotgun/rifle wasn't often shown.

3) Value seems to be anywhere from @ $400 to several thousand dollars.

4) Interestingly it has a plastic buttplate! Other than that, appears to be finely made.

If anyone can give me more information, I would appreciate it.

Pictures below and in the next couple of "posts":

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[Rick the Librarian2]

More pictures:

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[Rick the Librarian2]

Additional pictures:

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[Rick the Librarian2]

More ...

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[Rick the Librarian2]

And yet, more!

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[algmule]

..........

[Rick the Librarian2]

Peter (and everyone else) - thanks for the information, so far. Any idea who the maker might be? This was on the bottom of the barrel:



Some more pictures of the underside of the barrels:

[Rick the Librarian2]

Top of the "inside" of the receiver:

[algmule]

..........

[mike ford]

Rick,
I basically agree with Peter, with the following additional info.The case length is shown as 58mm. I believe as Peter does that it is likely 6.5X58R S&S.There were other 6.5x58R cartridges,but this was the most common, for the time.It was proofed for a 8.7gram(134.3 grain)Steel jacketed bullet, which seems heavy for the 6,5x58R S&S.I suggest you make, or have made, a chamber cast to be sure. Also, the barrel should be "slugged". The barrels in 6.5x58R are almost always smaller than .264-.265"(current standard 6.5 bullet dia.), usually around .260". Some people use 257" bullets and others size .264" to .260". The shotgun barrels are chambered for 16 ga.65mm(2 1/2-2 9/16") shells, not the current standard 2 3/4" length. This is shown by the 16 in a circle. The 17/1 is the diameter of the barrel, ahead of the chamber, expressed in guage. The crown W mark means the barrel is choked. The degree of choke is not shown, but is usually pretty tight. The crown S means it was proofed for shot. The crown U is for the "view" proof, which is a detailed inspection. The photo seems to show a "nick" in the right shot barrel, if so, it should be checked. The buttplate could be a replacement, but I noted the screws are "clocked". In case anyone reccomends rechambering the rifle barrel to a more common caliber, this should be avoided at all cost. In my opinion, your son has a fine rememberance of his grandfather and he should cherish it.
Mike

[Rick the Librarian2]

Mike and Algmule, thanks very much for all the information, especially the markings. Probably won't be a shooter, so not going to worry about a chamber cast at this point.

I hate to put you on the spot, but would you have a ballpark idea of what this might be worth? A "conservative" guess is fine. I just want to give my son all the information and options. He is not a "collector". He uses several guns but for hunting. The idea of having a gun as a "keepsake" is probably not in his plans, right now.

[algmule]

..........

[mike ford]

My grandfathers died before I was born,your son knew his.I have one of my grandfather's guns and since it's not for sale, it's worth nothing; but there is no amount of money that could buy it. I always do everything possible to help someone use a gun he just bought or his grandfather brought back from fighting a war to keep us all free; but rather than help someone get the last dollar out of it, I'll wait and help whoever buys and appreciates it.
Mike

[Rick the Librarian2]

Excellent points, Mike and I agree. On the other hand, I have listed all the guns in my collection with an estimate as to what they are worth in my will - that avoids the "I'll sell this old gun for $50"-problem that we hear about all the time when I pass away.

If my descendants don't want to keep my guns after I die, the next best thing is to make sure they sell them for a fair price.

[Dan Patch]

Peter: With reference to the powder notation W.1919 I think the W indicates Walsrode powder. As to what the qualities of the W.1919 might have been I don't know, apart from the fact it was presumably a sporting rifle propellant. The pre-WW.2 Stoeger catalogs indicate the powders used in some of the German ammunition they sold, and it would be possible to see applications for W.1919 there to get some idea of its characteristics. Dan