New guy with sporter .43 mauser project

[bummy268]

Hi, my name is Tom and I'm a new quy. I spend my time in Cheney, WA and Bayview, ID. I am trying to put together .43 Mauser loadings in the original paperpatch. I have a Dopplebuchsflinte, a drilling and a cape gun all with .43 Mauser barrels. I have slugged them and they are between .432 and .434, not the .446 in the books. If I paper patch I end up .453 or so, and while I don't have a lot of experience I think 20 thousands over is way too much. There must be a lot of .43 sporters out there (a GunBrokers listing by Doublegun Headquarters reports the same .434 thing) so why no molds? Some pistol bullets are close, but I want a heavy bullet. Even Buffalo doesn't list one in the .425-6 range.
Any ideas or am I messed up in my thinking.

[mike ford]

bummy, you didn't say what the minimum weight you would consider is. There are 44 caliber pistol molds avaliable for 300, maybe up to 320 grain bullets. At .430-.431", they can be easily sized to the .425-6" you want. If this doesn't work for you, you might try one of the .439" 43 Spanish bullets sized to .425". I do this for my .404 Jeffery.It pretty much wipes out the grease grooves, but since you intend to paper patch, anyway,that shouldn't make much difference. I suggest you check the "slugs" again.If they have an uneven number of grooves(such as 5),you may not be getting a true measurement because in this case you would be measuring from a groove to a land, instead of across two grooves.For barrels of this age,5 grooves are pretty common.
Mike

[collath]

Bummy, Mike is right about watching the grooves. Odd numbers can be difficult to measure correctly. Lee makes a .427" push through lube die kit that might work for you. They are cheap and easy.

[sharps4590]

I've never tried this but perhaps Mike has and can comment. Would it be possible to start with a straight lead bullet and size it down in steps? Might take a while, dropping down a few sizes at a time, but the concept seems like it would work.

[mike ford]

I sized the .439" bullet to .425" for use in my 404, in steps using sizing dies I had on hand.This was a lead bullet at 43 Mauser velocity for Deer hunting.Since it wiped the grease grooves out I had to tumble lube, which wouldn't be necessary with paper patch.These were wheel weight bullets but for patched bullets, pure lead may be better. I have no experience with patching bullets.
Mike

[Peter K]

Hello Bummy,
I have both a 43 Mauser and a 43 Spanish that I reload. What brass are you using for your various 43's? Right now I'm playing with partial resizing 446 bullets to make heeled 439 bullets for the 43 Spanish. Lots of fun. Keep us in the loop on your paper patching results.
Peter K

[collath]

Bummy,
I use push through sizers from Lee and make my own from old loading dies to size 458 diameter lead down to 453 in one step for paper patching a 577-450 Martini. I also take 501 down to 493 in one step to patch for a 12.7x44R Cape rifle. It takes several steps to reduce 375's to 360 for patching in a 9.3 and 360 express. I think this is the easiest way to get exactly the size you need especially when paper patching. Lee will also make push through sizers to what ever diameter you need on special order. Good luck with your project.

[sharps4590]

Will this perhaps work?

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=43-405P-D.png

If not Tom can and will make what you need. I have several of his molds and they're first rate in addition to Tom being supremely knowledgeable and a nice fella to work with. I checked on a price and a single cavity of aluminum blocks was $76.00

[bummy268]

Awsome input guys, Thank you very much. I went back and checked the number of grooves, and they are all six, but excellent caution. On the brass, after waiting a year and a half for a backorder from Buffalo I talked to Dave and he said if I could come up with .348 Winchester he would make .43 Mauser for me. So I bought 550 on gun broker only to find out it doesn't work with Jamerson, but 300 were Winchester and OK. Right afterwards Buffalo did get some Bertram, but I don't mind as my sole experience with some Bertram 9.3X82R was terrible. They were so off-size the I lost 5 out of 20 in the resize. If anyone is desperate for .43 brass I will sell some of mine. I'm into them almost $4 each. Thanks again for all the help. Tom

[mike ford]

bummy,
I wish you had mentioned needing 43 Mauser brass before, I could have described how to make it much easier(read cheaper), using 45-90 cases(assuming all your rifles are 11.15x60R,for cases as short as 52mm I use 45-70). There is an article on loading different 11mm cartridges in one of the older WAIDMANNSHEILs. If you weren't a member then, you can get a copy from the "home office". Basically I made a die to push the rim forward to make the "MAUSER BASE".I also described how Buffalo Arms had to have made your cases, except I needed 51mm cases and instead of 348 I started with 8x50R Lebel.This is smaller than 348 in head diameter, so it doesn't have to be sized as much. Starting with 45-90(or 45-70) makes cases .010-.015" undersize at the head,but they fireform to fit with out any problem.
Mike

[excess650]

My own experiences with "43 Mauser" is with both a '71 sporter and '71/84. I seem to recall the bore diameter on both was right at .434" and the groove diameter on my '71 is ~.454". I had a custom mould cut LBT .435-400LFN with slight bevel base and no grooves.

The original 1885 military round that I dissected had a .435" round nosed bullet paper patched, but either I neglected to measure the total diameter, or else I've forgotten....was loaded over a grease cookie sandwiched between a pair of card disks resembling playing card stock.

My 1st cases were OLD CIL, and appeared to be balloon heads, but worked fine with blackpowder. I later bought some Bertrams, and they were beautiful, solid head cases.

[sharps4590]

J.C. Munnel did an article on the 43 Mauser in the DGJ a few years back and he found the land/groove diameters varied greatly. If my memory hasn't completely failed me I believe he found them from the diameters you gentlemen mention, .432-.434, up to almost .450

The one I have, an E. Goldmann double rifle, goes right at .446, again if my memory is correct. I use the Lyman 340 gr. bullet mold for the 43 Mauser with good results. I too have some Bertram 43 Mauser brass in addition to the Buffalo Arms brass made from 348 WCF. I have no complaints with either.

[mike ford]

The mod 71 barrels I have slugged were .452" and the mod 71/84 barrels were all .446" in groove diameter.I use .452"sized 45-70 bullets in the mod.71, made into a "heeled"bullet(I would have prefered .454",but they wouldn't fit the seating die. For the M71/84 I used the Lyman 446110 or RCBS 44-370. The article I mentioned earlier is in WAIDMANNSHEIL #46, and entitled "11mm Ammo and Rifles". It describes making cases from 7mm Mag cases, but there are easier ways.
Mike

[Peter K]

The heeled bullets I make for my 43 Spanish I seat by hand into previously fired cases that were only cleaned but not resized. If I want them to not move I can do a factory crimp on them using a Lee 338 factory crimp die that I honed open to fit the case.
Bummy, I don't mean to hijac your thread by discussing what I do. It's just an example of some of the things that are possible to make an old gun shoot.
Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
I do it in the 43 Mauser by belling the case(unsized but primed/charged) and seating the .452" bullet so the crimping groove (also lubed) and one grease groove are outside the case, Then I size the neck(by eye)in a 444 Marlin FL sizing die. This works pretty good for me, I don't shoot BP so I can't count on the bullet bumping up to fill the grooves. BTY, you can also make 43 Spanish cases (or 44-77 Rem) cases from 45-90. For these you only need to check rim dia, and don't need to move the rim forward.
Mike