Any info on this drilling, made in Z-M ?

[John]

Hopefully the pictures will show up in this post...


I have a drilling (16 x 16, 9.3 x 72R) made in Z-M, bearing the name of a gunsmith in Plauen (Gustav Weidner).

I have found a "deed transfer" stating "Wechsel uber 84,30 Mark Karl Weisbach waffenfabrik Mehlis in Thüringen 15. Juni 1880 auf den Buchsenmacher Gustav Weidner in Plauen." I think this means Weidner bought Karl Weisbach's "weapons factory" in Mehlis, on June 15 1880. (I also found an entry in a Plauen address book (1905) listing Gustav Weidner as a Buchsenmacher.)

So, I guess my original question of "who made this gun" may be answered "By the workers at Weidner's Mehlis factory - either completely, or with minor finishing done at Weidner's shop in Plauen."

Is that a reasonable conclusion ?

Therefore, the remaining questions are these:

1.) Can anyone attribute the letters & symbols on my gun to any known maker/finisher in Z-M ?

2.) Note the odd little "hammer" stamping. If one looks at a "seal" or "coat of arms" for Z-M, one of the four main elements is a pair of crossed hammers ! Could this signify "where" it was made more than "by whom?"

Please share your thoughts/opinions.

Thanks !

John

[John]

The letters are VB over D, and the hammer is further below the D. (Hard to see...)

Thanks ! Note the two proof dates (1904 and 1905). I wonder why ???

[Axel E]

Another of the many traps of the German – English translation! The word "Wechsel" has two meanings in German, the most common now is "Change". But here it is the other, "Promissory Note" in English, an outdated instrument of financial transfer. The meaning here is: The country gumaker Gustav Weidner, Fürstenstrasse 4, Plauen im Vogtland, founded 1864, died 1920, had bought something worth Mark 84.30 (Germans use a comma instead of your decimal dot), maybe even this drilling, from Karl Weisbach, Zella – Mehlis,listed as hardware and (cheap) revolver maker and dealer in guns too.
Instead of paying cash he gave Weisbach this note, a promise to pay that amount on a given day to anyone producing this paper. Weisbach in turn could sell this Wechsel/note to his own bank, which then would make Weidner pay.
No hint of a takeover of Weisbach's "factory".
The drilling was indeed made by the Zella Mehlis guntrade, evidenced by the proofmarks. The drilling saw the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse twice, meaybe because problems. 118.35 is the old gauge mark, in use to 1911, pointing to a 9.3x72R. It was at the proofhouse first in 5.04 = May 1904, gun number 282 of that month. It was again at the proofhouse 6.05 = June 1905, gun number 1355.

[John]

Thanks Axel ! Yes, translation software have serious limitations...

I know this is a real shot in the dark, but any comment on that "hammer" mark on the rifle barrel (look at the Z-M coat of arms), or the letters VB or D ?

If anyone would know - it would be you.

Whoever made it sure made a fine weapon ! Slim, light - nothing fancy - but the skill is evident ! It's my favorite gun, by far...

Thanks again !

[mike ford]

John,
With regard to the two proof dates, the gauge mark, 118,35 can be for other 9.3(even 9)mm cartridges beside 9.3x72R. Since they didn't show the case length during this period, this can be confusing.In addition to the idea,as Axel mentioned,that it could have been sent back after correcting a problem;it could have been chambered for one if the less popular cartridges, and then rechambered to 9.3x72R( or from the "D" version).This wouldn't require new marking for bore diameter, but would require new proof. Either of these possibilities would require a "repair" proof( crown"R"),but I can't see all the marks in the photo. Does the gun have the repair proof?If there is no repair proof, it is possible it was sent back for a voluntary proof, by the owner, for some reason.This could be as simple as wanting to use a different load in the same cartridge, but being afraid to do so w/o new proof. The new proof was done 110 years ago and you may never know the reason, for sure.
Mike

[John]

No repair proofs. No markings on the rifle barrel, other than what's shown. Now, the shotgun barrels bear typical powder weight & lead shot payload weight (stamped near the breech of each barrel, on the visible portion - not the barrel flats). With those stampings, is the tiny Crown N nitro proof mark. Could it be that the owner wanted to get the shotgun barrels nitro proofed, and that was done during the 1905 proofing ? {The shotgun barrel flats bear the typical Crown S, W, U marks, two squashed bug marks, along with "Circle 16" and 16/1.} Did they use the Crown N on shotgun barrels in 1905 ????

Also, any ideas about the "hammer" mark, or the VB D marks ? (Long shot, I know...)

Thanks again !

[mike ford]

John,
Yes, it could be that he resubmitted it to the proofhouse to be reproofed for nitro power. The "hammer" mark is likely just the mark of some unknown workmen, to show he worked on it.
Mike

[John]

Thanks again !