odd looking drilling by C. BIEDERMANN BERLIN

[Packmule]

ok I have seen some odd guns , this one I have never seen any ideas on this one?by C. BIEDERMANN ~BERLIN
thanks all pix089911797.jpgpix434455690.jpgpix435113668.jpgpix656082891.jpgpix928803789.jpg

[Packmule]

a few more pics

pix083521491.jpgpix764920467.jpgpix850158099.jpgpix897155075.jpg

[chapmen]

Very nice rifle!
I think Axel can tell you more about it.......

[Axel E]

First, this is not a drilling, but an early breechloading centerfire db shotgun. I have nothing of a C. Biedermann, Berlin, who at least retailed your gun. The cylindrical coil spring locks are made to the 1860 design of Rudolph Berger, Wallstr.19, Koethen, Anhalt. Berger first employed these locks on his own needle fire guns, combined with a Gastinne-Renette slide and tilt breech action. Berger’s locks were widely copied by other gunmakers. From about 1870 on Berger’s coil spring locks were adapted to centerfire cartridges and combined with other breech actions, as the slide and tilt function was not necessary any more when Eugene Schneider’s centerfire cartridges were used. Such centerfires with Berger’s locks were called “Fürst Pless Gewehre” = prince Pless guns after the prominent hunter and user Hans – Heinrich XI, Prince of Pless. Here Berger’s locks are combined with the original “Roux” action, popularized by the Liege gunmaker Henry Roux, the first break open snap action, see “Waidmannsheil #53”, pages 20-21. On the original “Roux” action an underlever engages a round, lengthwise bolt that goes into a hole bored into the barrel underlump. This hole gives the open breech the appearance of a drilling. This Roux breech action, combined with Schneider’s centerfire cartridge, was offered in Britain by George H. Daw, London, most often as a hammer gun. Your gun may be dated to about 1870 – 1885, most likely about 1875.

[Packmule]

Thank you for the great information, I realized it wasn't a drilling after my first post and tried to change the heading. But thank you for all the great info, very interesting ~rj

[Robert]

Ok, first my declaimer, uh, I mean disclaimer

I know jack about old German guns


butt......

How is this NOT a drilling?

I see three barrels which is what the whole name is about is it not?


/declaimer

[Axel E]

Robert, reread my post above! The "third Barrel" you see is merely a hole bored in the underlug. On the original Roux action a round bolt enters this hole from the standing breech to lock the gun shut.

[mike ford]

Robert,
You didn't show a photo of the muzzles, which would clearly show only two barrels. This is an interesting old gun and is worthwhile to own, even though it's not a drilling.
Mike

[Robert]

Robert, reread my post above!

Axel, I wish I could, even after you clarified, which I thank you, the font, the screen, your lack of paragraphing and my tired eyes simply don't mix , as Mike pointed out there was no barrel end photo.

It is one hell of a cool looking gun though

Thanks

Robert

[ellenbr]

Robert:
Axel is a bit touchy. Post an image of the standing breech where the strikers(looks like there's only 2 but let's see) are and of the business end of the muzzle. Would be lovely if you could divorce the tubeset from the frame and also capture any marks on the underside of the tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Packmule:
Another question, do you see rifling in any of the tubes for some odd reason?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

One thing that just might be odd is why is the extractor for a double riding lower on what would be a lower tube but there's probably not room for the extractor rod & the lock-up stud? Again, let's see the standing breech & muzzle.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Not the exact platform(Sistem Berger Patent), but see how the teat protrudes from the frame and marries with the hole in the tubeset just below the scattergun tubes?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Packmule]

I didn't get it was watching it on Gun Broker and missed the end of the sale, it sold for $581 US

[ellenbr]

No worries & they will slip away.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse