My Pre-war 8x60 Mauser

[Packmule]

my pre-war Mauser in 8x60, nice light 6lbs sporting rifle, anyone know by the proof marks when it was made? It doesn't have a markers name but does have a serial number.
IMG_0170.jpgIMG_0171.jpgIMG_0172.jpgIMG_0173 copy.jpg

[Axel E]

Can you post a clear photo of the maker's or retailer's mark on the barrel, just behind the serial number?
Dating information may be found among the primary proofmarks. These are under the barrel! So you have to take the rifle apart.

[mike ford]

As Axel said, you need to post photos of the proofmarks. It would be interesting to see if it a pre-war 8x57 that was rechambered to comply with post WW1 rules. The caliber seems to have been stamped with a different stamp set.This is not definitive, however.On the other hand, the stock style seems more post war. Interesting rifle.
Mike

[Packmule]

Ok a newbie when it comes to proof marks y'all be the judge here are all the marks on the gun there is a '42' under the barrel so maybe that's 1942 ? no idea so turn over to people that know will be interested to know more about this fun little rifle. Thank you all in advance for any info. RJ100_1098.jpg100_1101.jpg100_1102.jpg

[mike ford]

Subject to correction by Axel, It looks like the rifle was put together with a new barrel at or near Zella-Mehlis in 1930(I couldn't make out the month) with ledger number 431( unless what I read as 30 is actually 60, in which case it would be Suhl in April 1931,Suhl didn't show ledger numbers).The 7,7 indicates it was intended for .318" bullets, which means it was not rechambered from 8x57IS to comply with Post WW1 rules.I await Axel's comments.
Mike

[Packmule]

it reads 7/7
3 30
4 31

when I measured the bore it measured .323 might need to do again if it reads .318 on the proof marks, very interesting info so far cant wait to hear more. But from these no idea who would have made it? thanks again will stand by for more info ~RJ

[chapmen]

Subject to correction by Axel, It looks like the rifle was put together with a new barrel at or near Zella-Mehlis in 1930(I couldn't make out the month) with ledger number 431( unless what I read as 30 is actually 60, in which case it would be Suhl in April 1931,Suhl didn't show ledger numbers).The 7,7 indicates it was intended for .318" bullets, which means it was not rechambered from 8x57IS to comply with Post WW1 rules.I await Axel's comments.
Mike

why it should be put together in or near zella mehlis?
It only shows proofmarks from zella, this says nothing about where the rifle was build.
There where a lot of makers in germany who send weapons to proof from all over germany to the proofhouses.

[Axel E]

The rifle was proofed in Zella-Mehlis 3 30 = March 1930. The “circled OK” (applied upside down here) stamp is of Oskar Kirchner, Grosse Bahnhofstrasse 14, Zella Mehlis, “gun factory”, gunstock shaping, especially stocks for 98 actions, dealer in stock wood, maker and dealer in hunting and target guns, blank/gas pistols and various models of small-bore rifles. In “Der Waffenschmied 1928” Kirchner advertised as “Special factory for all sorts of pre-shaped and finished gunstocks. Making of fine hunting arms, REPEATING RIFLES MOD.98, precision (small bore) “Mauser” carbines, sole maker of the Original Hindenburg Rifle” (a single shot bolt action .22 rifle). I don't know how to post the two advertizements, showing the OK mark and M98 offer, as they are pdf files. If you send a pm, I can send them by email.

[Packmule]

thank you all for the great info, very informative , pm sent Axel E , what about the bore is it .318 or .323 will be measuring again before buying some ammo ,I am planning on using it on at least one Texas whitetail deer this year, if one comes with in range that is . Cheers all

[mike ford]

The 7,7 is the mark for the bore diameter,measured by "plug gages" in 0,1mm increments.This means that it passed the 7.7mm plug, but not the 7.8mm, so you can have about 0.09mm variation here.Also this is not a measurement of groove or bullet diameter.Now we usually speak of bullet diameter,and we "slug the bore" to determine this, by driving a lead ball or slug into the barrel and after pushing it out, measure it's diameter across the widest dia.The rifle was marked for 8x57I ammo, at this time it had to be so marked.However it can very well be safe to use 8x57IS(.323") in it. By a combination of variations, including depth of the grooves, the groove diameter may very well be .323"(or some diameter smaller than .323", but larger than .318").The easiest way to determine if you can use .323" bullets is to see if a fired(unsized)case will easily accept a .323"bullet.If so the 8x57IS ammo can be used, even if groove dia. is slightly less than .323". This means the chamber neck area is large enough to release the .323" bullet and not drive the pressure up. Once it travels the length of the bearing surface into the barrel it has been sized to what ever the groove dia.BTY American 8mm Mauser ammo is unter loaded so if fired in older rifles, will still be safe.
Mike

[Packmule]

will take back to Scott Anderson , and let him check it out before I order some ammo, thanks again for all the great information and help~RJ

[Axel E]

As your rifle is an 8x60, tips regarding 8x57I, IS or weak American 8mm Mauser loads are of little help. Never try using any 8x57 loads in an 8x60 rifle! At best, you will end up with grossly excess headspace and torn cases. My own “8x60 Normal” marked B Mauser, .319” groove diameter, digests the current PRVI Partizan, PPU 8x60S loads, 196 gr, .323” Soft Point at 780 m/s = 2560 fps without any signs of pressure and with fine accuracy. The loaded cartridges have an outside neck diameter of .350”, the fired cases .355”. So make or have made a chamber cast using Wood’s metal = Cerrosafe TM. If your chamber has a neck diameter of .353” or more, you may use the PPU factory loads. If not, you have to stick with 8x60 handloads using .318” or .321” bullets, as no factory makes 8x60I loads any more. Same applies to your Krieghoff selfloader, of course.
In America PPU – Prvi Partizan is distributed in America by
USA:
TR&Z USA Trading Co. - General importer
2499 Main Street
Stratford CT 06615
Phone: + 203 375 8544
Fax: + 203 375 8547
E-mail:info@ppu-usa.com
www.ppu-usa.com
Canada: BELL Lifestyle Products Inc. -Distributor
3164 Pepper Mill Court
Mississauga ON L5L 4X4
Phone: +1 800 333 7995
Fax: +1 800 387 3238
E-mail:info@belllifestyleproducts.com
www.belloutdoors.com
Ask them for availability of their 8x60S softnose loads, but stay away from their GROM bullet loads, as those are near solid brass and hardly compressible.

[Packmule]

great info thanks will do that , I really want to take a whitetail with it this year, and need to get the ammo figured out soon deer season is a only a few months away. Thanks RJ

[mike ford]

Packmule,Axel,
See what old age can do for you? Of course I knew it is 8x60 instead of 8x57(see my first posting),but somehow while writing, my mind changed gears over to my standard answer for the 8x57.As it happens, I am putting together an 8x60 with a barrel a friend gave me, a prewar stock from another friend and an acton from my "stash".Resulting from this I have been considering how to make cases for it. I have an 8x57 file trim die and will screw it down on a 3mm stack of "feeler" gages on top of the shell holder and size/trim 30-06 cases and expand the necks.After fireforming check final length and load as usual.Lacking the file trim die, size 30-06 cases in 8x57 dies set "high" and adjust the die until the case will chamber with a slight "crush" fit. Fireform (the 30 cal. neck should fit into the area ahead of the chamber)and trim to final length. Load as usual. You can buy 8x60 dies or use 8x57 dies adjusted to just "kiss" the shoulder.
Mike

[sharps4590]

That's ok Mike. You told me you were glad the Red Dot worked in my 9 X 57 when it was Unique...lol!! I am certainly grateful that I have never done anything like that.

I have that 8 X 60 Funk barreled action I should either do something with or sell. It would sure make a nice rifle.