9 X 57 anyone?

[mike ford]

Vic,
My rifle had a crack in the stock that made it inaccurate with 250 gr bullets; so before I fixed the problem, I had settled on a light 200gr bullet and sighted the rifle for it.I've hunted and taken deer with the 200 gr bullet, it just doesn't feed well in my rifle unless the cartridges are pushed to the rear of the mag box. I believe(if your rifle will shoot them) the 250 gr will match the original load the closest. The 225 Hawk is also a good bullet, as I guess you already know. For cartridges like this, I've found medium burning powders perform well. I would also expect 4320,4895,N202/203, or whatever new medium burning powders the "kids"are playing with today, to perform as well as those you cited.Of all my German friends, only one hand loaded(also collected cartridges), and he happened to have a 9x57, put up in a mod88 sporting rifle. He strictly used Norma data (and components)intended for 358 Winchester, including 358" bullets. The barrel in my rifle,and others I slugged, have .358" grooves. Unless my old memory fails me, your rifle has .352"groove dia., so you would have to modify the data, regarding the bullet. The barrel in my rifle isn't good enough to have tried cast bullets, someone else can give better help than I.
Mike

[bro.steve]

Mike your comment that your rifle has .358 dia. vs Vic's rifle having .352 dia. is what I see all the time with 9mm rifles, especially the Mannlicher Schoenauers. First order of business is to slug and find out. If your gun is .358, you have hit the lotto for reloading convenience and bullet selection. If not, just get busy finding a solution--maybe swaging. I second the use of 4895 (around 44.5 gr) Steve

[sharps4590]

bro steve, I looked back through the thread but didn't see where I mentioned making a swaging die for .353-.354 for the Sauer & Sohn Mauser. That's what I did, worked great. If I missed that I apologize for being redundant.

I also didn't see where I had our local gunsmith make two front sights for it. I filed them in, one for the jacketed bullet load and the other for the cast load, then filed to a round countour. They too work just fine.....and I doubt the sight for the jacketed load ever sees use.

As soon as Momma gets finished with her radiation treatments I'm going to need a project to re-establish my sanity. Sooo, I've been looking at a Husky/Mauser bolt in 9.3 X 57. Oghta be a fun cartridge to work with.

[Kiwi_bloke]

I presume you have slugged the bore. Some are .358" and, if that is the case, you may not need to swage the bullets. Mine was .358".

[sharps4590]

That's how I learned it was .352. I re-read all the posts trying to find where I mentioned it was .352 and evidently I didn't, at least not in this thread. Obviously I told Mike sometime as he mentioned it in post #31.

Apparently when this thread was resurrected I had the loads for the JP Sauer in 9 X 57 worked up and was starting on the Franz Jaeger drilling in the "R" version of the same cartridge. I couldn't find the original thread on the Sauer in 9 X 57. I thought there was one but maybe not.

[Diz]

sharps,

What bullet diameter, weight, powder, barrel length are you using? I can run some numbers for you.

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Hey Diz...These are for the J.P. Sauer & Sohn Mauser. The bullets run .354 to .353 cast and jacketed. Ummm...Cast weight is 248 grs. lubed and gas checked over 17 grs. of Unique with a foam filler. Jacketed is 250 gr. over 43 grs. of IMR-3031. Barrel length is 23 inches. I have the velocity and energy numers. I think those are in one of the previous posts. I used 358 WCF data to start and I know the Unique load is over the 358 WCF max, I think by two grains, according to Lyman. Zero pressure signs with either load.

[Diz]

sharps,

My program gives a max pressure for this cartridge at 2800 bar (about 40600 psi) I hope someone would correct me if that number is wrong. With a 250 grain round nose Hawk over 43 grains of 3031 I am showing 2287 fps @ 29700 psi predicted in your 23 inch barrel. How does that compare to actual? Powder burned is 95.2% with a ballistic efficiency of 29.1% Not bad at all and very low pressure. There are a couple of variables left but wonder how this looks.

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Hey Diz..

My records show a velocity of 2143 fps. with 44 grs. of IMR-3031 load but the barrel is quite worn so I suspect a bit of velocity loss from that. That load is with a Sierra bullet, not Hawk. The rifle did not like Hawk bullets for whatever reason. It's been a while and I imagine I dropped a grain to 43 grains out of deference to the old rifle so actual velocity is probably closer to 2100. I didn't run that load across the chrono. It still shoots to the sights and is accurate enough. From the numbers you came up with evidently I can easily use the 44 gr. load. I like the pressure number. It's probably quite close given the readable pressure signs. Thanks for running that load!

Vic

[Diz]

sharps,

I should have asked what the cartridge overall length was as well because I know the bullet length but adjusting the seating depth in the program can refine the numbers. I plugged in .300" as a seating depth just to have a number and would like to see what the actual does to the results. Plus I could plug in a Sierra bullet to match. Which one was it?

I myself am not a fan of Hawk anyway and stopped using them long ago. Perhaps they have been improved since then but I have others that are much better now.

Thanks, Diz

[Hook]

Hello everyone. I stumbled across this forum by following links from a couple of other discussions about Mausers. Really glad to find y'all and look forward to learning new stuff here.

I decided my first post here would be on this thread because of my newly acquired interest in the 9X57 caliber. After owning, shooting, hunting with, and reloading the 7X57 for over 30 years, I got interested in the 8X57 about 5 years ago. I will start a thread to see if y'all can help me with some information on an 8X57 M98 sporter I picked up earlier this year. But right now, I want to talk about my 9X57.

It just seemed logical to move up another millimeter from the 8mm, so I decided to build a 9. Since no true 9mm barrel is reasonably available, I bought a 35 caliber ERShaw barrel and a 9X57 reamer with a 35 caliber guide from PT&G. The .358 bore is close enough to 9mm for my taste and the bullet selection is much better. The finished rifle got to me about three weeks ago. I wanted to use the rifle this deer season so no load development was done. I just used the max load of 44 gr of 4320 listed for the 9X56 MS under the 250 gr Hornady RN bullet. One shot at 25 yds, adjust, one more shot at 100 yds, adjust, and then a 0.96" 3 shot group 2" high and 1/2" right. Can't do much better for zeroing a new barrel than that!

Three or four more 3 shot groups after that have gone from 0.85" up to just over 1.5". Cleaning the barrel has gotten nothing more than powder fouling on the patches, so the Shaw bore is really smooth. I also loaded a few 246 gr GC FP cast bullets over 17 gr of 2400, also a load from 9X56 MS data. Surprisingly, four of these went just over 1.5" at 'point of aim' with the above zero so I can use either load for deer out to nearly 200 yards.

Now, here comes the question. I'm really curious what Diz's computer program will say my velocities are. Diz, if you're willing, plug these in and see what you get.

250 gr Hornady RN
44 gr 4320
COAL 3.00"
Bullet length 1.155"


246 gr GC FP cast bullet
17 gr 2400
COAL 2.80"
Bullet length 1.05"


Cases are new 8X57 WW that were run through my new 9X57 FL sizer die and are 2.21" long. The barrel is 24".

Unfortunately, family issues have kept me out of the woods so far. Deer season here in Alabama runs until the end of January, so I still hope to blood this little beauty soon.

If anyone has any good 9X57 load data they're willing to share, I'd love to hear from you.

[Axel E]

If anyone has any good 9X57 load data they're willing to share, I'd love to hear from you.

Go back to page 1 of this thread. There are many favorite loads shown there already.

[Hook]

Axel, I had looked through them and most were with powders that I don't have and/or didn't include powder charges. I did notice one I'd missed, your load with 250 gr bullets and 46 gr of IMR4895. That one is a good possibility.

The 250 gr Hornady RN bullet seems perfect for this cartridge. The 9X56 M-S loads, both jacketed and cast, I started with are mild for the 9X57, but they shoot so well I may just stick with them. Since I don't have a chronograph, and there are no extensive load tables for the 9X57, any independent load development would be pretty much in the dark. I am using a M98, so higher pressure loads are definitely possible, I'm just not sure how much better they'd be.

[Diz]

Hook,

Welcome to the board. I am happy to run your loads using the 24" barrel length you listed. I have the spec for the 250 grain Hornady and used that with your OAL of 3.0". However for the cast bullet the closest I could come was an RCBS 250 grain FNGC bullet at 2.80". Here is what came out:

250 grain Hornady RNSP

44 grains IMR 4320

Pmax 33,301 psi

Fill 87.1%

Mv 2,053 fps

Pro burn 92.79%

Bal Eff 29.7%



250 grain RCBS FNGC

17.0 grains Alliant 2400

Pmax 16,031 psi

Fill 36.6%

Mv 1,476 fps

Pro burn 100%

Bal Eff 35.3%


Of course these are predictions based on the info I could put in and there are many variables but I think these numbers should be close. It is an interesting cartridge to be sure. If there is anything else I will be happy to help.

Merry Christmas! Diz

[Hook]

Boy, that's good stuff, Diz. I should have bought one of those programs years ago.

The Hornady load is even milder than I expected. There is definitely room to heat it up a tad. The cast load is pretty much what I expected. I'm not sure but that this rifle might eventually become a cast bullet only shooter.

The thing is growing on me. Having the chambering reamer already, I'm suspecting that another 9X57 may be in my future.....