SXS shorgun-rifle ID help

[papaw]

An elderly lady gave this to me several years ago. Said he husband,a doctor, was shot down over Germany during WW11. The story goes that the villagers took him in and he doctored the people. When the war was over and he was liberated, they gave him this side by side. It is a shotgun, but has evidence of a rifle. It has an adjustable rear sight, adjustable triggers, and a trap door covering holes in the stock to hold rifle cartridges. It appears that the buttplate, trigger guard, and under lever are horn. I hope the pictures below will help identify it. It is rough enough that it is a wall hanger, but I really like it.

[papaw]

More photos.

[ellenbr]

It is a I. Meffert Hubertus Gewehr that experienced proof in September 1931 with their patented grip safety. It wears Krupp tubes by Wilhelm Kelber.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sharps4590]

That's an interesting old piece and a wonderful story. I too would consider it a treasure.

I also think there's a lot going on there. If you and those on the board who know of such things will indulge me I'd like to take a crack at this piece. I'm pretty new to German firearms and have been trying to learn as much as I can in as short amount of time as I can...so here goes. First off....if a guy named Axel....or Raimey.....or Mike or any of several others tell you different from what I do, believe ye them!!!!!

I think there is two firearms here. I don't know how long into the 20th century the Lefaucheux action was made, if at all, and I'm thinking the rest of the stockwork, wood and metal, is earlier than the barrels. Given the pop-up tang sight I am suspicious that if I am right the first barrel set was a combination gun, shotgun on one side, rifle on the other. Of the proof marks the crown over S is for smoothbore, over U is final, definitive proof and over W is for a choked bore. 16 is obviously for the bore and I forget what the circled 16 denotes. If I am seeing correctly the date appears to be 9/31 which I am going to assume to be date of proof, which I am pretty sure is a lot later than the Lefaucheux action was made. If my memory is right, it was proofed in Suhl. It would be interesting to see the proof marks on the other barrel, unless they are duplicates of what you have shown. I would say you are correct regards the trigger guard, et al. I know, a lot of "ifs" on my part....but I am a bit cautious about my answers.

My E. Goldmann in Erfurt double rifle is a Lefaucheux action and the barrels assemble/disassemble in the same manner as yours. I am just about positive mine is from no later than the mid 1880's and am putting yours in the same era.

Vic

[sharps4590]

Oh well....so much for what I thought....hehe.

[papaw]

Thanks to both for your time and knowledge. Unfortunately We never found the other barrels. It just appears to me that the stock shape and other things point to a centerfire rifle also. Anything that you can think of to check out, I will.

[ellenbr]

Vic, I'd say you on target as I didn't mention that it is fitted with a 2nd tubeset. If there was an image of the water table, a best guest at a date might be possible.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[papaw]

What is the water table?

[ellenbr]

Top of the frame. It should read Hubertus Gewehr, Hubertus Gewehr 32200 or Hubertus Gewehr D.R.G.M. 32200


I think this to be a later variant


Another less the Ocular

I wonder with the ocular if the Lefaucheux platform of this variation would support a DR?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[papaw]

I will check tomorrow. I am out of my shop now.

[Axel E]

You may find more on the Feist - Meffert Hubertus "safety" guns here:
http://www.germanguns.com/upload/sho...hlight=Meffert
or here on another forum:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/...rue#Post329037
The 1931 proof date may be the date the shot barrels were fitted to the action. My own one had Nitro-proofed 16-70 (2 3/4") shot barrels and combination barrels, 6.5x52R aka .25-35 / 16-70, fited and proofed in1940. These Lefaucheux actions, if properly made, would easily stand the strain of blackpowder rifle cartridges like the 9.3x72R or the 11.15x65R LK "Drillingspatrone". Problems only appeared when the high pressure smokeless cartridges came into use.

[papaw]

It says Hubertus Gewehr. The trap door at the back and bottom of the stock is for 5 cartridges. Approximately .415" in diameter and 3.150" deep. A 38-55 slides in nicely.

[sharps4590]

The original barrels, if there was a set, could well have been chambered to one of the 9.3 X 72R variants.

My Lefaucheux does not appear to have any problems digesting 43 Mauser loads. They are a very lightly duplexed load under a 340 gr. cast bullet.

[mike ford]

The 16 in a circle designates the chambering, which in this case is for a 16 ga. with 65mm( 2 1/2-2 9/16") chamber. The 16 w/o a circle is the diameter(in ga.) of the barrel ahead of the chamber.
Mike