Meffert Schutzen Rifle

[otto nebel]

I recently acquired a schuetzen rifle that has many unique features. It's also raised some questions that fellow GGCA members may be able to answer.
The mystery as to who made the rifle was quickly solved by the maker's name on the top flat and and it was non other than Imman Meffert, the founder of Meffert and Sons.
The action is a true dropblock but used a rounded through hole.
The right side of the action is cutaway for easy loading.The left side of the action has a hand detachable side plate complete with a window that allows easy inspection of the hammer/ sear engagement and removal for cleaning and lubrication.
Outstanding full coverage engraving, complete with several portraits.
The forearm has a dog carving at the tip which features eyes of a lighter colored wood.
A chamber cast suggests that it's chambered for one of 10x46 mm or 47mm R MB cartridges.

I think that the absence of proof marks indicates that it was made and sold prior to implementation of the German proof law in 1893
Does anyone know if this type of action has a specific name?
The number 9032 is present on the action, side plate, DST's and buttplate. I think that it represents the serial number. I don't know what the number 116 or the crown over interconnected loops represent. Any Ideas?
I suppose that there is no way to know who engraved the action but I wonder if anyone might recognize any of the subjects in the portraits?
The rear sight uses a triangular hole in the base, instead of the more common square one. Does this help date the rifle?

Attached are some photos of the rifle.

Otto

[otto nebel]

Attached are some pictures of the chamber cast and cartridges being turned and formed.
The cartridge rim measures .6” in diameter and is .095” thick. The base is .519” and the neck is .426” to .428” in diameter.
The cartridge appears to be the 10mm version of either the 46mm or 47mm MB case. I can't tell from the chamber cast but the fireformed case should tell the case length story.
The octagonal barrel length is 25 3/16” long and measures 1.5” at the breech end and 1.062” at the muzzle. The bore will accept a .378” gauge pin but not a .380” pin. The groove diameter from the chamber cast measures .391' to .394”. There are 8 grooves, which are .134” wide. The bore is in excellent condition.

[otto nebel]

Finally, a few more photos of the engraving, that also show the three portraits.
Do any of the portraits look familiar?

Thanks,
Otto

[yamoon]

I love it, but I can’t help you.
Mike

[otto nebel]

Perhaps one of our German members might have some thoughts on the following questions:

Does an action that uses a round falling block mortise have a specific name?
Is the crown over interconnected loops a mark used by a specific Suhl gunmaker?
Could the number 116 indicate the barrel maker?
Does anyone have any information on the use dog carving of the forearm tip?
Are any of the portraits shown above of known schuetzen shooters?

Thanks,
Otto

[mike ford]

Otto,
I suggest you contact German member Brigitte Hoelscher (Feuerbixler-Biggi) concerning identification of the portraits on your rifle. She is known to have more than a passing interest in the history of the old shooting clubs. If you can't contact her by PM, Jon Spencer at the home office may be able to help. You might be interested in an article in Waidmannsheil #71, Summer 2023, about a quest she started concerning a shooting club.
Mike

[chapmen]

What i see is an Meffert "Vertikalblockverschluss", it depends on the german Patent DRP 19676, dated 1881. There are several versions of this action known, especially around the "view hole". The idea behind this was the possibility to see the main spring and to see if it is tensioned or not. The "dog head" ist typical for Meffert at this time.
In my opinion the crown/loop stamp belongs to the barrel maker.
I dont think that the portraits can be located, there are often find on rifles like this.

In Albl's book "Scheibenwaffen" you find an exemplar with an related action, dated 1879.

Real interesting and seldom seen rifle!

[otto nebel]

Mike and Chapmen
Thanks for your response.
I'll see if I can locate the German patent and contact Brigitte.
I suspect that your right about identifying additional information on the engraved men but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Otto

[chapmen]

I'll see if I can locate the German patent

There you are:

https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...676A&xxxfull=1

[yamoon]

Chapmen
thank you for the documentation, the drawings were great, once again I wish I could read German.
Mike

[otto nebel]

Chapmen
Thank you for the patent link. I found the 1882 patent but had trouble downloading the sheets.
Patent 19676 certainly looks like a version of my rifle but there are significant differences. My rifle lacks the mechanism under the forend and has a rounded breechblock, as opposed to a rectangular one like in the patent drawing. The front of the action on my rifle looks like it may have come along later but the rounded breechblock looks like an earlier version.
Do you know if the action pictured in Albl's book "Scheibenwaffen" (1879) looks more like my rifle or more like the 1882 patent?

I really like the dog head carving on the forend and have another rifle with this feature. Am I correct in thinking that it was a feature of older guns and does anyone know when it fell out of favor?

Thanks,
Otto

[chapmen]

Patent drawings only show an indication of the technical realization of the patent idea, in most cases the drawings do not correspond 1:1 with the manufactured weapons.
The shape of the breech block is not the subject of the patent, always pay attention to what the patent was granted for. Also the mechanism und the forend is not related in the patent text.
The patent relates to "The arrangement of the mechanism ...... and the springs contained in the block". The patent does not cover more, but the guns manufactured according to this patent are easily can be recognized by the small characteristic lock plate and the vertically mounted V-spring.

Perhaps Biggi Hoelscher can put you in touch with Josef Albl, maybe he can give further information about your gun.

The dog shaped forend is very typical for Meffert at this time, but also others used it.

[otto nebel]

Chapmen
Thank you for your response.
I completely agree that the patent details are described in the text. Unfortunately, my German isn't up to reading the patent text, so I didn't know what was covered. Thanks again for your clarification.
I've asked for Biggi Hoelscher's contact information and will post any additional information that I receive on the Meffert.
I've formed a dozen rounds of ammo for the schuetzen but it will be awhile before I can take her to the range. The stock has some major issues but the bore looks great.
Otto

[chapmen]

IMG_20240722_195416.jpg IMG_20240722_195423.jpg IMG_20240722_195419.jpg

Source : Josef Albl, Scheibenwaffen

[otto nebel]

Chapmen
That Meffert looks as if could have been a clone of my rifle, complete with the rounded breech block mortis.
I suspect that it may also be chambered for one of the MB based, 47mm long cartridges.
Thanks again for the additional information

The seller of my rifle relates that the rifle was originally purchased and passed down through several generations ending with a Catholic Priest, Father Permie. Before his death in 1960, Father gave the rifle to his friend, who was the father of the seller. I'm looking for additional information on Father Permie.

Jon Spencer felt that the engraved portraits may represent three regions in Germany: the Low Dutch, the central and the Bavarian-Austrian. I suppose that this guess is based on their dress. Do any of our German members agree and if so, what features of their dress indentify the area?

Otto