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In searching for affordable for me combination guns, I have noticed that the Ferlach guns have 6.8mm bores, with some listed as being chambered for the 7x72R cartridge. I don't recall seeing any German made arms with that cartridge. Of course I have seen German arms in my price range with other chambers, but so far none with the 7x72R. Were the Austrian game laws not as stringent as in Germany, this cartridge being not so powerful?
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Hello
Peddled in Dresden
Peter -
The 7x72R was a Brenneke developed cartridge. It seems unlikely that it wouldn't have been chambered in German made guns. Plus, examples of 7x72R cartridges in my "pile" carry RWS headstamps.
MikeComment
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First, while German proofhouses marked rifle barrels with the smaller bore or land diameter, the Austrian proofhouses marked the larger groove/bullet diameter. An Austrian barrel marked 6,8 mm is a 6.5 one, like for the 6.5x54 M-S. A “7mm” barrel was marked 7 mm in Germany, but 7.2 mm in Austria.
The 7x72R cartridge is much younger than it’s shape suggests. It was released in 1927 by Wilhelm Brenneke, Leipzig, as a roebuck+ number for slim break-open rifles and drillings. So it’s a German cartridge originally. The Ferlach gunmakers often chambered it in their own break-open rifles and combinations. In some ways it replaced the earlier and even slimmer 6.5x70R “pencil cartridge”. The 6.5x70R was a German development too, released in 1912. Though developed in Suhl, it was more popular in southern Germany and Austria as a roebuck – chamois load. As RWS dropped cartridge production by 1934, 6.5x70R ammo became unavailable. So many guns were rebored, rerifled and rechambered to the “new” 7x72R in the 1930s, as was my own Collath combination. The 7x72R was obsolete too after WW2.
Most German and Austrian hunters before WW2 could only dream about shooting anything larger than a roebuck, just as eastern US hunters had whitetail deer as their only quarry,Last edited by Axel E; 01-18-2023, 07:14 PM.Comment
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Thank you for the replies! The 7x72R just appears to be fascinating, like any unusual cartridge. So far I have encountered 3 guns in 7x72R, one personally. All are/were Ferlach proofed, hence my question.
Axel, your comment about Austrian barrels marked 6.8 was really helpful. Another SxS combo gun I am looking at is listed as an Austrian 16ga/6.8mm. The rifle cartridge rim and head diameters are provided, but no chamber cast. Perusing my copy of HANDLOADER'S MANUAL OF CARTRIDGE CONVERSIONS shows that this one MIGHT be chambered in 6.5x27R, or 6.5mm Eizelladerbusche. Custom dies can be obtained and brass made from 357 Magnum. This gun is dated to 1929, I'm not sure one that recent would so chambered. CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD describes that cartridge as being from the 1890's, but I think that usage in 1929 could still be possible. A chamber cast would tell it all.Comment
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Originally posted by offhand35 View Post
Imho a 6.5x37R is highly unlikely in a gun made in the late 1920s. As you write, you got rim and base diameters. What are those? A 6.5 mm chamber with head dimensions close to a .357 Mag could be a 6.5x70R too, rim .421”, base .355”. Or have you considered the 6.5x53R Mannlicher, military cartridge of Netherlands, Roumania and Portugal (navy and cavalry only), a popular sporting number in Austria too.Comment
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From the listing: ..."This one is dated to 1929 under the barrel. The shotgun is 16 gauge while the rifled barrel is marked as 6.8 (mm) underneath. The chamber dimensions for the rifled bore are .435” for the rim diameter and .350” for the base of the case.."
The specification for the 6.5x27R show Rim: 0.428". head diameter 0.379" (apologize for the US measurements)
If the measurements are correct they don't match up with the 6.5x53R Dutch Mannlicher, those being: rim:0.526", head diameter 0.450. Too bad, that one would be easy to make. I did also think about 6.5x70R or 6.5x72R, but don't have the specifications for either one. The only thing I could possibly make them from would be 9.3x72R brass, This might leave the neck too thick and need to be turned down. I don't have the tools for that on hand, but I suppose I could get them if needed. I did find a listing for 7x70R, headstamped Franz Sodia on a custom brass maker's site. They also called it a 6.5x70R Czech Sauer. They are not currently taking orders for some reason. Custom made dies are also available, but are about 3x more expensive than other calibers. This is a nice hammer cape gun, and could be worth effort to determine the cartridge.
I would have to take it on as an adventure.Comment
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offhand35,
The best donor case for 6.5x70R would be the current, but not very common, 6x70R Krieghoff. This cartridge was mostly intended for use in einstecklaufs for hunting Reh.
MikeComment
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Mike, thank you for that note. I think that without a a relative in Germany the 6x70R would essentially be made of "Unobtainium" here in the US.Comment
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