Oberhammer Combination

[chapmen]

Just had the luck to buy an Oberhammer Combo in until yet unknown 5,6mm caliber and 16/65.....
I know these with mauser 98 action, but i have never seen one with this action?

[mike ford]

Chapman,
A combination gun in 16/65 would more than likely be intended for hunting game, so there is a good chance the 5.6 cartridge it is chambered for would be 5.6x52R. The size of the ejection port seems to support that guess. Have you seen the proof marks yet? If there are no marks, or if the bore diameter is expressed in gauge measurement it would likely be too old to be 5.6x52R.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

chapmen/Mike,
thank you for posting.

The Apel-site has a few things on Oberhammer combination guns. You have probably already seen it but I post a link anyway http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/arc...ter-of-munich/

Have you disassembled the thing?

The D.R.G.M. is according to the Apel-site from July, 1896. In my world it means 3+3 year and it would have expired in 1902, if re-newed after the first 3-year period, that is. If not re-newed, it would have expired in 1899.

Off topic: I've never seen one (only in an ad) but there was a shot-rifle combination gun built on the Mannlicher Repetier-Gewehre, Austrian patent No. 9853, 1901, "Mehrladegewehr mit zweitem Lauf f?r Schrotschuss", held by kaiserliche und k?nigliche F?rster Johann Schlager.

German patent given as No. 39767 (probably never accepted, maybe it interferred with Oberhammer's D.R.G.M.?)
Hungarian patent No. 25771 (not found)
British patent No. 21086 (not found)
French patent No. 324968 (found)

Sorry for off topic.

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

chapman,
If you follow Peters suggestion and disassemble the gun, we can glean a lot of information from any proof marks, photos of which would be very helpful. If there are no markings, while it is disassembled you should make or have someone else make a chamber cast and "slug" the barrel. Are you positive the rifle caliber is 5.6mm ? Peter's date calculation would make it less likely to be 5.6x52R, however there are a couple 6.5mm cartridges that would fit the earlier dates better. This type combination gun is seen often enough, but they are mostly post WW1 to utilize surplus Mauser Mod.98 actions for combination guns ( combination guns being popular in Germany at the time). This one uses what seems to be a "purpose built", so called "small type 71 Mauser" action, however, instead of a WW1 action.
Mike

[chapmen]

I won't get the gun until next week, but you can be sure that i check the proof marks in the moment i hold it...... However, I suspect that it is not the 5.6x52 R. This round came up in Germany just before WW1, to late for this gun. The system also doesn't seem stable enough for this cartridge. This system is typical for weak cartridges and only locks through the bolt handle approach, often used for so called "Schonzeitpatronen/ off season rounds".I suspect a cartridge like the 5.6x35R Vierling aka .22 Winchester Centerfire. The 5,6x35R Vierling was avaible in Germany around 1900 and would therefore fit the time and the system.
I'm looking forward to the solution to the riddle, be it with a stamp or a cast.

BTW. the term "small type 71 Mauser action" doesnt exist in germany, thats an US collectors creation.

[mike ford]

The term "small type 71 Mauser action" or "small 71 Mauser type" is not an official term but is sometimes used to describe any one of several similar actions of different size, usually chambered for smaller cartridges, but sometimes seen up to 9.3x72R and often in 8.15x46R. A mod 71 is much larger and has the bolt stop screwed to the bolt and this type does not. The term is really just used for convenience to describe otherwise unidentified actions of the type. The ejection port seems too large for the 5.6x35R Vierling but maybe it is one of the tesching cartridges like 5.6x40 R "RP". A chamber cast would ID it.
Mike

[chapmen]

So, the riddle continues .....


Chamber cast gives exact the dimensions for the 5,6x52R aka .22 Savage High Power. But - this system is too weak for that.

[mike ford]

Chapman,
The rifle withstood a nitro proof in May of 1937. It seems that it was strong enough then, but if you are uncomfortable about it now, maybe you should have it examined by a gunsmith. He could even have it reproofed for you, if you desire it. If it were mine, I wouldn't be afraid to fire factory ammo, or factory level hand loads in it. It doesn't really seem to lock only through the bolt handle. The bolt handle is set into a pretty substantial lug which locks into a slot in the action which also has a substantial amount of steel behind it. Actually, I think you are pretty lucky to own the gun, but if you are disappointed, maybe we can make arrangements to transfer it to me ( for a reasonable price, of course).
Mike

[chapmen]

Mike,

i think what you interpret as a proof date is the journal number of the proofhouse. The proof is much earlier, there is no "nitro" stamped, nor is the case length specified- what would be if it was proofed 1937......
In the long run, I consider the system to be insufficiently adequate for a cartridge in the gas pressure range of the 5.6x52R. If you shoot it in this rifle: happy birthday. Because of its rarity, the retail price is too high for you, and, more importantly, it is part of German history and will remain in Germany.

[mike ford]

Chapman,
First of all, let me say I'm happy that you intend to save the gun and not allow it to be destroyed. Secondly, if I am wrong about the following, it won't be the first time; and I'm sure it won't be the last time I'm wrong, either. The rifle was almost certainly nitro proofed, it has the crown N ( normally for shot guns, but is on a rifle barrel), is proofed for a jacketed bullet (5 gram K.m.G.) which was always a smokeless( nitro) cartridge. As for the "537", at first I thought it might be the bore diameter, expressed in "gauge" measurement; but, the 1895 chart for calibers under 172.28 has a 527, not 537(5.5mm would be 459). Also, we often see dates without ledger numbers, but I have never seen a ledger number without a date. In any case a ledger number that can't be "tied" to a month and year would be useless.
It is your gun, if you don't want to shoot it with commercial ammo, that is entirely your right.
Mike