The Use of Tang Sights WITH Mid-Barrel Sights

[Old No7]

Waidmannsheil.

I'm posting this here, rather than over in the Schuetzen forum, thinking it may get more comments here.

One of the gunwriters at Shooting Times magazine has written a couple of small articles about German target rifles recently. In his latest, he writes:

"...old-time German marksmen used their sights differently than we do. On a Schuetzen rifle, the main sights are the mid-barrel open sight and the front sight. The rifle is sighted-in with these, then the tang (or diopter) sight is lined up with them. Its only purpose is to sharpen the sight picture using the mid-barrel sight. According to those who have studied German methods, the diopter and front sight were almost never used without the mid-barrel sight. whereas some competitions forbade the use of the diopter."

That's very interesting, but is news to me!

Then again, I grew up being schooled by my Dad on the use of peep or aperture sights based on his interests in Harry Pope and a wide variety of U.S.-made single shot rifles.

Both my Haenel KK Sport (.22 LR) and my Buchel Meister Schuetzen (8.15x46mm) rifles have tang/diopter sights only. Neither came with any mid-barrel sights -- and I never missed having them!

And if they did come with them -- I'd bet I would have removed the mid-barrel sight immediately without thinking about it.

So now I'm curious what others have to say about the use of tang sights with mid-barrel sights, thanks.

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old No7,
I also read the article you referenced, but I had read the same thing(almost) from our member Axel. However, I think he was mostly talking about hunting rather Schuetzen rifles. Schuetzen rifles often had both diopter and open mid barrel sights, I believe, to allow either to be used according to the rules of the match being fired. On some hunting rifles, a "flip up" peep sight was installed to allow older eyes a sharper sight picture, in the days before general use of telescopes. Axel's answers to other questions indicated older eyes in the Schuetzen game were sometimes accounted for with another type device that has glass lenses and is attached to the diopter; but does not qualify as optical sights, which would not be allowed. Now that I have mentioned his name, maybe Axel will come in with correct information.
Mike

[Leatherman]

I have also had this conversation with some of our board members who have shot in matches in Germany and were told by the locals there that all three sights were used . I queastion when this practice started and if it ever was changed or was possibly a rule that varied by club or other reason. Today our shooters of long range Black powder rifles are up in age and most are using scopes which were originally not allowed and new rules had to be created to include scope use. We are even putting target scopes on Schuetzen rifles and shooting them as bench guns.

[sharps4590]

This is purely as I understand the two sights on Schuetzen rifles and is certainly subject to correction. The tang sight was used for the longer of the two ranges and the barrel sight used for the shorter range. Obviously there's no reason the tang sight couldn't be used as a diopter for the barrel sight. Then the question becomes is/was that allowed in competition.

On hunting type rifles as I understand it, the use of the flip up tang sight was used as Mike indicated and as suggested in your first post, as a diopter to sharpen the barrel sight.