Seeking info on JP Sauer 12 gauge sxs

[malco]

Hi--I discovered your site while trying to learn about a Sauer double I recently acquired.

I believe it may originally have been a live pigeon gun--32" barrels, straight wrist, full choke in both barrels, mid-bead on the rib, with a weight of about 8 lbs. It does however have an auto-safety.

Styling of the gun in general is much more English than typically German--no side-clips or scallops, no cocking indicators, no swivels or cheekpiece, etc. Boxlock action with Greener cross bolt and very minimal scroll or Arabesque engraving. All script on the gun is in English as well, including the maker's name (JP Sauer and Son), the legend "Fluid-Steel" on the left barrel perpendicular to the action face, "Krupp-Essen" on the right likewise, SAFE at the tang safety, and "MADE IN PRUSSIA" on the water table.

Here are some pictures.

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Thanks!

Malcolm

[mike ford]

Malcom,
Welcome to the site, I'm sure you will enjoy it. There are others on this site, that are experts on Sauer guns, and I'm sure they will be along shortly. In the meantime, I will offer the best I can. I also am sure it was produced for export to an English speaking contry, whether specifically for live pigeons or other game, I cannot answer. Both barrels are choked, likely pretty tightly. It was chambered for 2 1/2- 2 9/16 " , 12ga, shells. The barrels measured 13/1 bore, ahead of the chamber, which is commonly found in 12 ga. guns.
Mike

[Jim Cate]

Hi Malcom and Mike! Yes, it most likely is a pigeon gun made for export into the U.S. The serial number puts its production about 1911-12. Please add a side view of the receiver so I can determine the situation a little bit better. Thanks, Jim Cate

[malco]

Thanks for your help! Here's another picture, as requested:

[Jim Cate]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I cannot tell if your Sauer has the longer Taubinflinte (pigeon) receiver from the latest photo you have supplied. Therefore I would have to say it is a Model 100 that probably was sold by Von Lengerke & Detmold or Abercromie & Fitch. A&F was purchased by V.L.&D. in 1927. The pigeon guns had longer and stronger receivers, but I have never seen one without upper and lower sears. Your gun only has the upper sear screw showing, so I have to think it is a regular production Model 1. Jim Cate

[malco]

Thanks again, Jim--should I repost a photo with a rule or other index for length? On the other hand, are non-pigeon-receiver guns with the other general trappings (weight, bbl length, mid-bead, etc) relatively common? I have tried this serial number on the G&H research page, and it doesn't appear...

Also, did all Sauers of this vintage have tapered bores, or only certain specimens?

I had the gun apart, and I will say the internal workmanship is nothing short of exquisite...

Thanks again--

Malcolm

[Jim Cate]

Well, first of all, keep in mind that a customer could have special ordered this gun through one of the U.S. retailers as I have mentioned earlier. So, bottom line, he could have ordered anything within reason on this particular gun. It was obviously made for the American or English market, i.e. straight 'English' type of stock, Son rather than Sohn, no sling swivels, no cocking indicators, mid-bead being present, etc., etc. Tapered bores? That's a good question that I don't have an answer for. I think that all vintage shotgun barrels have a slight taper, or so it seems when you open the breech and look down the barrel toward the muzzle. Maybe Axel or Mike can help me out with this one. Yes, I think it would be good to measure the overall length of the receiver from the rear vertical portion of the receiver straight forward across the top of the screws to the front radius the barrels rotate on. Once again I apologize in my response time, but it has been rather hectic here with lots of necessary things going on. Regards, JIM