Vierdort double rifle..

[mike ford]

Vic,
If you look on the most common charts of German proof marks one set goes to 1939, another set after 1939( 1941 is after 39) and another set after the war. The post 39 and post war use eagles( adler), but of a different shape. The post 39 shape is called Reich Adler( ie 3d Reich) and the postwar one is commonly called a Bundes Adler( for Bundes Republik or Federal Republic). Maybe I confused things asking about a 1941 mark, instead of post 1939. I was confused thinking Axel said they used post 39 German marks instead of Czech marks.
Mike

[Axel E]

1940 to 1945, the Weipert proofhouse used German proofmarks indeed, but the Prague proofhouse used 'Czech ones. This rifle was proofed in Prague.

[mike ford]

Axel,
Thanks, I knew we could count on you to keep us straight.
Mike.

[Leatherman]

Vic, I think you will be wise to use the rifle with out the scope. It was probably regulated with out one. So much nicer to carry too. Good luck with it.

[sharps4590]

I agree Leatherman. I have about 50 rounds through the rifle and the results appear to confirm your thought on regulation. I still want to find a period scope sometime just to have it with it. Oh, Mike, the scope was not glued in the rings and I think I have it sold. Now I have to figure out a way to "antique" the new rings.

I can't post pictures on here, no host, but, I do have some gratifying results. Most everyone has worked with a double so I won't go into details. With 39 grs. of IMR-4064 under a 200 gr. cast, gas checked bullet from an Accurate Mold, I think it's 33-205, the first Right/Left print into 1 3/4 inches at 50 yards. and dead on for elevation and windage. The 2nd Right/Left open up to almost 4 inches at the same distance. I would think that has to be from the barrels warming. I'm going to add one more grain of 4064 and try it then I'm going to try IMR-4350 and see if a slower powder might pull the composite group closer together. If one or the other doesn't work I guess I'll go the other way and try a little faster powder. Those are all with open sights with me seated at my bench but no rests, simply holding the rifle and leaning on the bench for support.

The right barrel shoots the better of the two and will stay under an inch for 3 shots if I don't shoot too fast. The left barrel, not quite so good but, it will easily stay under 2 inches and closer to 1 1/2. The left barrel is the larger culprit of the two for opening the group.

The chambers were rather sloppily cut or the dimensions of the brass was different almost 80 years ago. Just ahead of the web I'm getting a bulge of .007-.009 expansion but, that stopped after the first firing. Had to cast some more bullets as I shot all mine.....horrible job. As soon as they go through their little hardness change I'll start again.

[mike ford]

Vic,
If you are going to change scopes, you can be happy the rings weren't glued. It is pretty easy to "antique" the rings, but the "trick" is stopping the process so it matches the rifle. It is easier to match a rifle with a "Patina"( a collector's name for old rust) than one that is as nice as yours. While I don't recommend it in this case, the way I match a new part to an old gun is to place a small amount of "Sure Kleen"( a concentrated brick cleaning solution- a combination of acids) into a glass jar and "block" the part up out of the liquid, but in the fumes, and put a top on it. You have to watch it closely and remove it when there is an even coat of rust. The "matching" comes in by removing the rust with 0000 steel wool until the colors match, then stop the rusting with WD-40 or Ballistol. Maybe you could dull the "shine" a little with 0 or 00 steel wool, without rusting. If it were mine, I wouldn't worry about it.
As to regulating a hand load, there are so many variables is going to be "load and try" exercise. We can be pretty sure the rifle was regulated at one time, most likely with out a scope, but we don't know if for 8x62R or 8x65R. You have already "picked" a starting load and the idea is to refine it to get satisfactory results. Always fire both barrels, as quickly as you can get back on target with the second barrel. Let the barrels cool to ambient temperature before firing the next two rounds. It is important to know whether the barrels are shooting together, shooting wide of each other, or crossing each other. It is very hard to see which bullet was first and which was second, if you don't have someone watching for you. Even with someone watching it is hard sometimes. I take care of this by placing two targets, side by side, shoot the right barrel on the right target and the left barrel on the left target. After three shots from each barrels, put one of the targets on the other and mark the bullet impacts through the holes. Then you can see if the barrels are shooting "wide" or "crossing". If "wide" you need a little more speed to get the bullets out of the barrels sooner. If "crossing" , you need a little less speed to give the bullets a little more barrel time. These are only general "rules of thumb" and there may be exceptions. They are effected by bullet and powder weight which vary recoil, also. The distance at which to set the targets is a matter of choice, Germans often used 80 or 60 meters, but I usually use 100 yards because that is how the range is set up. It is true that this procedure is not how you hunt. The purpose of the exercise is to find a load that shoots the bullets together( within 5 cm). Then the sights can be adjusted to put the group where you want it. There is only one Iron clad rule- What I do is not binding on anyone else, it is only what I do.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I do things nearly the same though I've not fired both barrels as quickly as possible. I can see how that would require two people. I like the two target idea. I could shoot at any range out to about 125 yards though my range is basically 100 yards. I do shoot mostly at 50 yards and that's where the groups were fired. As far as slow and shooting apart and fast and crossing.....yes sir, learned that the hard way about 25 years ago after wasting a lot of powder and lead before I finally bought Grahame Wrights book on shooting British double rifles. My first double rifle was German and I still have it.....and it has never learned to read so Wright's book was applicable.... You are right, there is a lot to it other than bullet weight and velocity. I think it is John "Pondoro" Taylor who said even bullet shape can make a difference....subject to correction, of course.