6.5x52

[yamoon]

I am considering bidding in an online auction for a stocking rifle. It is a system Ideal by Kettner. The auction house says it is 6.5x52, would this be the Carcano round or is there another 6.5x52?
Thanks Mike

[mike ford]

Yamoon,
Without seeing the rifle, I'm pretty sure it is 6.5x52R, which is the German designation for 25-35 Winchester. Although the German ammo was loaded to slightly less pressure, that makes little difference. Ammo is available loaded in the US as well as (I believe) in Europe . The American ammo is available loaded with the new Flextip bullet, which has enjoyed "good press" recently.
Be happy you found it before I did.
Mike

[Leatherman]

I had a SXS cape gun marked 6.5 x 52 but the chamber was not the American 25-35 . It came with reloading dies from CH4 and a loaded round. You used 25-35 cases. The dies just knocked the shoulder off the 25-35 cases leaving a tapered cartridge. I loaded some of the Flex tipped bullets but never used the gun for hunting before I sold it. As all pre war German guns go, a chamber casting is required to see what the true cartridge is regardless of what is marked on the barrel. Hopefully it is in the American 25-35 version as Mike described above.

[mike ford]

Yamoon,
If the rifle is 6.5x52R, It should be marked 6.3/52. The 6,3 would be the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter and the 52 would be the longest case it would accept, without regard to shape or diameter. The "R" would not be marked because that would be self-evident by the extractor. The markings represent dimensions found by the proof house, they do not represent the nominal cartridge the rifle is chambered for. If 25-35W is not the cartridge, you should do as recommended by Leatherman, but let us know and we will help you figure it out. Rifles in this class were chambered also for 6.5x48 R S&S or 6.5x58R S&S, which are similar in power, but use different diameter bullets and cases. When you receive the rifle, if you post photos of all the markings we can likely give you more information.
Mike

[Axel E]

Though the 6.5x52R is the German, metric version of te .25-35 Winchester, the two cartridges are not exactly the same. Before WW1 there were no standard chamber or case dimensions, neither in America nor in Europe. Any gun- or cartridge maker used dimensions and measuring methods he deemed best. In Germany a Normalisation commission was formed to establish standard minimum chamber and maximum cartridge dimensions.(See the article on Normalisation in Waidmannsheil! #56) By 1925 the popular .25-35 Win was normalised in Germanny with metric dimensions as the 6.5x52R. A year later,1926, the American Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute, SAAMI, was founded. Subsequently the SAAMI established their own standard dimensions for the .25-35, with American measuring habits and US Customary numbers of course. This results in two independent sets of dimensions, the SAAMI one for the .25-35 Win in inches and the German/CIP one for the 6.5x52R in millimeters. Most often the cartridges are interchangeable, but sometimes a SAAMI spec .25-35 cartridge will not fit a 6.5x52R barrel with a minimum CIP chamber. While my I.Meffert "Hubertus" combination swallowed .25-35 Winchester cartridges without any hickup, my Zella - Mehlis made G.L.Rasch Tell-type rifle would not. My solution: I got hold of an old 6.5x52 chambering reamer and depened the chamber by about .02" (the old German reamers did not cut the rim recess, so headspace as not affected)
[img]https://up.picr.de/19299964pb.jpg[/img]
[img]https://up.picr.de/37209869cw.jpg[/img]

[mike ford]

Axel,
I couldn't get the attachments to open up.
Mike

[yamoon]

I did not win the rifle, it went for $850, would have been $1000 with the auction premium. There was no condition description & the pictures were too dark to go by. I have a system ideal stalking rifle cal. 8.15x 46r. I would like a falling block in a more powerful chambering, perhaps one of the people reading this has one They would consider selling.
Mike