JG Anschutz "Stalking Rifle" -- Model Name/Number?

[Old No7]

I've recently acquired this single-shot German "Stalking Rifle" of falling block configuration (similar to a High Wall) chambered in the very accurate 8.15x46R Schuetzen/Target round once popular in Germany. While I have not ID'd the exact model yet, one of the images clearly shows the "J G Anschutz" marking that was in use after the turn of the century, so it comes from a great maker. It has the Nitro proofs and BUG marks, but the date of the proof was removed when a hanger to better fit the forearm to the barrel was added many years ago. I can see "127" which I believe is the proof ledger number. It has a 30.125" barrel with set triggers and a tang safety, and the barrel flat is marked "Fr. Oberbigler Neuotting" which I believe was the original owner's name.

This is my third old German gun picked up over the last couple of years, and I am really enjoying them (and this website). I need to get it out to the range soon, but it cleaned up really well and I also just completed a repair to the safety (adding a new spring/slider under the tang that locks it in/out of safe). If it shoots as well as I hope it does, I'm now thinking of using this from my tree stand this fall. It would be terrific to harvest a deer with it and qualify for a "St. Hubertus" award from the GGCA.

Does anyone have any idea of this Anschutz's action name or number, and am I correct with my assumption about the name on the barrel flat? (I could not find any gunmakers named "Oberbigler"... But Neuotting is a town in Bavaria.)

Waidmannsheil!

Old No7

[algmule]

Hello

Franz Xaver Oberbigler, Büchsenmacher, Neuotting.

Kind regards
Peter

[Old No7]

Wow, that was fast -- thank you for the info, as I had not been able to ID him as a gunsmith.

Cheers.

Old No7

[algmule]

Hello

Have him mentioned and listed as Büchsenmacher in 1931, in Neuotting. Apparently he was in Nueotting in 1925. No mentioning of him in 1936. I can't post images as I haven't learnt how to after the forum update.

EDIT: seems it should be Neuötting.
EDIT: https://www.dasoertliche.de/Themen/O...ting-Ludwigstr

Kind regards
Peter

[Old No7]

Vielen dank for that info Peter.

Following receipt of your information, I did manage to find an online entry saying he was "1st Marksman" in the Neuotting Schuetzen organization (die Königlich Privilegierte Feuerschützengesellschaft 1407 Neuötting) in the timeframe you mention (1929 - 32) -- and their history as shooters dates back to 1407 for civil defense. Wow...

Also, I was just advised (on another forum) that this is a "very rare Nimrod" action; and it appears to be even more rare to have one with the Anschutz maker's mark on the receiver. This action is shown in the Tom Rowe (et al) "Alte Scheibenwaffen" series of books -- which I had checked, but obviously I'd missed that page...

Tight groups.

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old No 7,
The JGA( Julius Gottfried Anschuetz) in a circle was the logo of the Germania Waffenwerk AG Zella Mehlis. By this time Julius had died and his sons Fritz August and Otto Veit had taken over. After the war, the family moved to Ulm, are world famous for the quality of their rifles, and are friends of the GGCA. When you shoot the rifle, take note, the safety may work backward to what we are used to( ie pull to fire, push for safe).
Mike

[sharps4590]

Nimrod action? As in Thieme & Schlegelmilch Nimrod? Hmmm....that's interesting. Unless Anschutz also had a "Nimrod" action? I'm curious about it now....but I was anyway as it's a lovely rifle!

[Old No7]

Thanks for that response Mike, much appreciated.

I'm familiar with the "reversed safety" from my brother's accurate CZ452 rimfire which has the safety you pull "back" to fire. I got this rifle at a lower-than-ticketed price due to the non-working safety, but a $10.00 safety slide spring from a local gunshop easily fixed that right up, and the fire/safe detents are distinct.

On the "JGA" marking, thanks; I now understand it's not the same Anschutz "company" that we all know of today. But it's still from the same Anschutz "family", per this history of the Anschutz markings from the current Anschutz website (below) -- it's still a pretty good lineage for a quality rifle:





I didn't note this before, but when a prior owner changed the forearm's attachment from using a wedge key to a screw going up into a fixed hanger dovetailed into the barrel -- they also glassbedded the forearm, which makes me think this rifle is (or should be!?) a very accurate shooter. Time will tell.

Waidmannsdank.

Old No7

[algmule]

Hello

Some info that seems to be missing from the present Anschütz web page.

I don't know when it opened but the company had a "Verkaufsorganisation" (outlet I would assume) in Berlin-Charlottenburg. That outlet was at least there in 1940. Below is an ad from 1943.
OldNo7.jpg
Also: an ad from 1901 and another ad from 1907 tell that the company (at least then) had "Eigene Lauf-Fabrikation" (their own barrel manufacturing). I don't know when (or if) they stopped their barrel manufacturing but an ad from 1911 does not mention anything on manufacturing barrels nor does an ad from 1913. An ad from 1937 does not mention any outlet in Berlin-Charlottenburg.

Kind regards
Peter

[Axel E]

Such rifles on Schuetzen style falling block actions, chambered fr the 8.15x46R target cartridge, but stocked like hunting rifles, were never meant as Pirschbüchsen = stalking rifles in the first place. Instead, such "Keilerbüchsen" = (running) boar rifles were specialised target rifles for competitions of the German hunters associations. The rules here did not allow full blown Schuetzen rifles with peep sights, curved buttplates and exaggerated stocks. Hunting type scopes or open sights were allowed, but overall weight was limited. I have written about Keilerbüchsen and German hunter's matches several times, see "Waidmannsheil!" numbers 48, 60, 62.
You could use such a rifle for shooting a small roebuck in a pinch, but even the smokeless, 151 gr copper jacket factory load at 1923 fps was deemed marginal. Using it at larger game like fallow deer or wild boar was frowned upon and later, since 1934, even illegal.
This action was designed by Ludwig Catterfeldt, Mehlis, and protected by DRGM # 127903 on 12.23.1899. Originally rifles on these actions were signed "Luca Meiserschaftsbüchse DRGM" = championship rifle.
How the "Nimrod" monicker, TM of Thieme & Schlegelmilch, Suhl, was stuck on these actions is beyond me. The action offered by T&S may look similar, but had an L-shaped swinging block with integral underlever. Alas, the Suhl gunmakers did not make "their" Schuetzen rifles themselves usually, but bought them in from the specialised Zella – Mehlis guntrade. And, many American "Authorities" called an action type by the name first seen on such a rifle, be it a maker, retailer or middleman. F.i. Frank de Haas called the same action a "Kommer", a "Kettner" or a "Schmidt & Habermann" action in different pages of his book.

[Old No7]

Thank you Axel, I do appreciate your expertise.

I am learning much on this forum and I respect all of the opinions and value each reply.

Perhaps the biggest thing I've learned from this posting is to be "humble"; and not to make any quick assumptions -- such as it being a "stalking rifle", or being an "Anschutz" rifle, For sure, I will aim to be more careful with my research and comments on any future rifles.

Now I will focus my efforts on shooting and enjoying this rifle.

Cheers.

Old No7

[Axel E]

Old No7, your Keilerbüchse was certainly built by J,G.Anschuetz, Zella – Mehlis, to the order of Franz Xaver Oberbigler, Neuötting, who retailed it. The "Bavarian cheekpiece" speaks for an order from southern Germany. As the humpback buttstocks became popular in the 1930s, I would date the rifle to that period. Most Keilerbüchsen seen today date from that time, as the 1934 hunting law made training and competing mandatory for all German hunters. As the old style, classic Schuetzen game went out of fashion at the same time, leftover Schuetzen actions were often used for building Keilerbüchsen. According too the different rules, they had to have a safety added.
Allmost all of such Keilerbüchsen were made and proofed in Zella –Mehlis. Gunmaking there was a highly divided, if not disaggregated work. So J.G.A. probably made those actions for Catterfeld, or the other way around. Anschuetz may have made the barrel, or they may have bought it in from a specialised Z.-M. barrelmaker like Max Moeller. The unusual special order stock was probably done by an outworker, a freelace stockmaker.

[Old No7]

Wunderbar Axel, Vielen dank.

Old No7