Simson Drilling

[kcordell]

Hi,

I just got an old friend back after being gone for 5 years...believe it or not, it sat at my gunsmith for that long waiting for one new shotgun mainspring and a few other minor fixes its now tight as a bell and operates (may not look it) like new. Anyway, my gunsmith just retired so now out of luck if I need any other work done. Anyone have recommendations...Mid-Atlantic if possible but not necessary.

Interesting, I cannot find much details on Simson drillings or any for sale. Were there many variants? This one in particular is 8x57IR under 16x16. Scope is original to the gun and has original leather optics case marked "dialytan" inside. I cant wait to take it to the field next season!

[sharps4590]

Wow kc! I've had a couple rifles gone for a year or two but never 5. My fear would be I forgot I owned it!!!!....wait....no, I doubt that. That's a good looking rig and I think you need to show us some shooting results with it.

[hendrik]

Hello kcordell,
this ia a very nice gun.
Its a Anson Drilling with kernersche Ansonschlosse.
this modell ist rare to find from Simson.
I think the engraving its from richard Schilling, a very good freelance engraver from suhl.
The gun was built in the 20tis or 30 tis?
....you can find under the barrel the proof date stamps...
Can you make better pictures- also from the engraving?
Greetings Hendrik

[kcordell]

Hendrick, it was made in April of 1930. Here are a few more pictures. Thanks for the comments.

[mike ford]

kcordell,
5 years may not be the longest time you have to wait-I've been building one for myself 25 years. For another gunsmith, check out the Trade Directory in "WAIDMANNSHEIL", they are members and understand our needs, plus we should support them.
Mike

[hendrik]

hello again,
yes, this is a typical engraving from Richard Schilling.
I love hes work.
I have also 6 guns with engravings from him....

Greetings
hendrik

[kcordell]

I just did some lite research on Richard Schilling. Looks like he did lots of work for some key historical people.

[hendrik]

Yes,

Richard Schilling and hes father Franz was with the best engravers in the golden age.
Both work togrether. The engravings from Franz was a little bit more fine with mor details.
Franz has make the most best grade sauer & Sohn guns, Richard also.
Richard has make the BSW Double rifle drilling from Göhring,the eblen-strempel stalking rifle from Göhring, the menz piostol from Hitler, The Gustloff pistol from Hitler......and much more.

I have received a lot of pictures , engraving rubblings, and engraver tools from hes daugther...

kind regards
Hendrik

[ellenbr]

Interesting on the engraving, Hendrik. Did Franz & Richard Schilling perform the engraving for the bulk of the BSW sporting weapons? Yes it is a Kerner-Anson variant and looks very similar to a BSW Modell Nr. 36. I'm curious if Simson sourced it or not.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[kcordell]

Curious, Would a BSW manufactured firearm fit into the 4/30 date?

[Axel E]

Oh, Raimey, your question again shows a lot of ignorance about German history and economical conditions! Soon after the Nazis came to power the jewish Simson family was pushed out of their company. In 1933 "Simson & Co" was renamed "Berlin-Suhler Waffen- und Fahrzeugwerke Simson & Co. KG" In 1934 it was "Berlin-Suhler Waffenwerke, vormals (formerly) Simson & Co.", in short "BSW". In 1935 the trademark "WAFFA" was used for a short time. From 1936 on it was "Wilhelm Gustloff Werke / Simson & Co." All the time the same factories and the same workmen! After 1945 the Soviets took over and the whole lot was again renamed " SAG (soviet stock company) Avtovelo", soon renamed again "SAG Simson-Werke". In 1955 the former companies Gebr.Merkel, Haenel and Simson were amalgamated into the "VEB (people owned company) Ernst Thaelmann Werke." During the following GDR years the "Simson" name was used both for motorcycles and for side-by-sides made by ETW, while "Merkel" was used for over-unders. "Haenel" was the ETW trademark for airguns and small bore target rifles. So Simson could never "source BSW" for anything, as both were the same.

[ellenbr]

Apparently Axel you seem not to be able to translate English as your pedantic post is most unattractive. Sometimes I wonder if you yourself know much about the economics and history of Germany. I tire of your priggish posts and I did not say that Simsom sourced BSW. I well know the history and my inquiry was centered around Simson sourcing another mechanic while they were making rubber baby buggy bumpers.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Though Simson made a lot of other goods during the 1930s too, they remained one of the largest gunmakers in Suhl. According to Fritze's book the 1950 production numbers were: VVB MEWA, the combined factories of Sauer & Sohn, Gebr.Merkel, C.G.Haenel and Greifelt: 24000 guns. SAG Simson: 18000 guns. All other state controlled Suhl gunmakers: 7000.
Drillings with Anson type boxlocks such as the Simson discussed here are quite rare, as they were just as complicated to make as sidelock ones, but without the prestige associated with the large sideplates. The advantage of boxlock drillings on the common and cheaper Blitz-/triggerplate locks ones: The distance from breechface to front trigger is about one inch shorter, making for a much better balanced gun. The problem of building a boxlock drilling is: the action bar has to accommodate three locks, hammers, mainsprings and cocking levers, distributed on two sides of the underlug recesses, without making the action bar ungainly wide. The prewar Suhl solution to the problem is visible on the underside photo of this Simson one, if you look close.

The underlugs are not central under the rifle barrel as in Blitz- or sidelock drillings, but slightly set over to the left of the gun. This asymmetrical design allows putting in two locks in the right and one in the left side of the action while maintaining a slim action. Most people, even gunsmiths, are unaware of this unobtrusive feature which certainly made actionig and barrel fitting much more difficult.

[hendrik]

Yes, Axel wrote the true history....
Greetings Hendrik

[kcordell]

Hendrik, per Richard Schilling and Raimey's earlier inquiry, did he do all of Simson & BSW engraving or only special projects?

And also,,, Axel!!!, Thanks GREATLY for all of this very informative data.