Christoph Funk 16 Gauge

[norsk]

I went to a gun show this weekend, and became enamored with this trim little Christoph Funk 16 gauge, so I brought it home. Appears to be all original except for a small Blackbern import mark on the barrels under the forearm. 29-3/4 inch barrels, choked full and full. Still has the 65mm chambers and sling swivels ( Mike, you will appreciate that!) Serial number is 34867. In researching Christoph Funk in my back issues of Der Waffenschmied, I came across an interesting article in issue number 43 by Fredrik Franzen, in which he states that there are very many Christoph Funk guns in the 34000 serial number range are found in Sweden, including shotguns, drillings, and double rifles. Apparently they were all sold in Sweden around 1920. I believe this is one of those guns, based on it being a recent import. I would appreciate any comments and more information on the Christoph Funk firm. Note in one of the photos the SS markings on the barrels. Did Sauer & Sohn possibly make barrels for Funk?

Funk1.jpgFunk2.jpgFunk3.jpgFunk6.jpgFunk5.jpg

[C. Roger Bleile]

Christoph Funk guns originally imported into the US were imported by Baker & Kimball of Boston and so marked.

[norsk]

Blackbern LLC is a current importer of sporting arms, including many used guns from Sweden.

[ellenbr]

That brace of S initials with the diagonal tail are not Sauer but some other mechanic like Sylvestr Schilling, etc. The W & RW are interesting in that it would seem that Funk sourced the post 1912 Kerner-Anson boxlock. He must have been one whale of a craftsman as you see them on many, many drillings. It is possible that he might be a Schlegelmilch, but I think the probability to be quite low. I've seen the mark on a Schlegelmilch and Metzner hammer drilling. Also the Ws might be Ms - Metzner?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

There is a brand-new book by Peter Ravn Lund on Chr. Funk available from the GGCA bookstore:
http://www.germanguns.com/store/inde...product_id=140
In 1934 Alfred Christoph Funk bought the Thieme & Schlegelmilch "Nimrod" company. From 1937 on both Funk and T&S guns were made under the same roof by the same men.

[Axel E]

some other mechanic like Sylvestr Schilling, etc.

A Sylvestr Schilling in Suhl??? That's the Czech spelling of the first name, see Sylvestr Krnka, a German would write Silvester. The first name Silvester, after several popes, is rather unusual in the catholic parts of Germany like Bavaria, but most unlikely in a protestant area like the Suhl part of Thuringia.

[Axel E]

The SS mark may point to the barrelmaker Stephan Schilling, Gothaer Str.82, Suhl, still mentioned 1941 and succeeded by son Fritz Schilling, the last barrelmaker in Suhl. But due to the frequency of the name "Schilling", 86 known active in the German guntrade over the years, most of them in Zella-Mehlis and Suhl, it is hard to pin down a specific man.
Similar with the 46 Schlegelmilchs. These were more concentrated in Suhl, but only one in Zella-Mehlis. The most famous is Louis Schlegelmilch, head gunsmith of the Prussian Gewehrprüfungskomission at Spandau arsenal. He designed the bolt of the M88 action, "grandfather" of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer action. Later he designed another interesting bolt action, see "Der Waffenschmied Nr.17".
Other than these frequent names there is only one Metzner family known, Albin, Georg (pre-WW1) and Max. Max Metzner was a gunmaker, "Waffenwerke Mehlis", "factory" at Unterzella 8, Zella-Mehlis. He held DRGMs, 226130 of 1904, for a novel bullet and 1029052 of 1928 for an airgun.
Given the rivalry between the Suhl and Zella-Mehlis gunmakers it is unlikely Max Metzner collaborated with one of the Suhl Schlegelmilchs. But there was a contemporary Hermann Schlegelmilch, Meininger Str.47, the only Schlegelmilch known in Zella-Mehlis.

[ellenbr]

Higher probability points to the Schilling klan and it appears we are describing the same mechanic. But you only list one of his names. I have seen a Str. Schilling listed for the mid to late 1930s but I think he or his father was active prior to that. Might be a typo but then again your info cannot be without error, so it may lie with you. Play your Rook & I'll play mine. I cannot fathom why you would not think of a collaboration of Schlegelmilch & Metzner when it is right on the top rib in your native tongue, German???? Again, your source(s) is/are not without error. For the time, stretch Str. as how you see fit.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Suhler Waffenfabrik Schlegelmilch & Metzner existed until 1901

Prove this concern did not exist and the name was not as stated above. I wonder some times if there is a language barrier.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Raymei, I fear the German/English language barrier works against you most of the time. For a German "Str." is not stretchable to any common German first name. I think it is an incomplete, misread/-stamped/-printed "Stn." for Stephan Schilling. As the dates we have for both versions of the name are about the same, "active late 1930s" and "born 1859-1941", and both are listed/documented as Rohrmacher = barrelmakers, I think them to be the same man. Barrelmakers were active in Suhl in comparatively small numbers at any time. People of the Suhl guntrade were often active to their very end. Fritz Schilling, who may have been rather a grandson of Stephan, was in his high 70s when I visited him in 1990. He quit about 2000. Known identifying stamps were often used by the same shops through several generations, even if the new owners had a completely different name.
I never said that a company "Schlegelmilch & Metzner" did not exist. But I think the men behind it were Max Metzner of Zella-Mehlis and one of the many Schlegelmilchs, maybe Hermann of Zella-Mehlis or one of the many less known, poorer Schlegelmilchs then alive.
Any man with the well-known Schlegelmilch name and a Suhl address would have improved the image of Max Metzner's humble Zella-Mehlis business. Such "adoption" of better known "Names" was a common practice then. F.i. "Max Meffert, Berlin" was in no way related to the Suhl Mefferts. The man behind this company was the dealer Georg Knaak. Or, the Ernst Merkel of the short-lived 1920s company "Abesser & Merkel" was not a relative of the other Suhl Merkels. In P.R.Lund's book on Christoph Funk, page 44-45, there is a Chr. Funk advertisement warning against confusion with the other "Funk, Suhl" gunmakers, stressing the first name Christoph though the company was then run by Oskar Wilhelm, Ernst Christoph and Alfred Christoph Funk. Similar confusion existed until lately between the two rivaling Kettner, Köln and Suhl, companies, Eduard K. and Franz K.
Just like the Birmingham gunmakers who often advertized with a prestigious London address, sometimes merely a corner in a Saville Row tailor's shop, German country gunmakers and some Zella-Mehlis ones established cooperations or merely mailboxes in Suhl to mark their guns with a prestigious "Suhl" address. Some went great lengths to get "Suhl" on their barrels. One of my rifles, Z-M proofed June 1912, is inscribed on the rib: "AL. Schulte-Herbrüggen Essen u. Zella b. Suhl"

[ellenbr]

I did not translate nor did I transcribe the Str. as that is the way I found it. Unless you present a founding document for Schlegelmilch & Metner, I'm hard pressed to believe Hermann was involved.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse