Help Identify pistol...

[Treeman]

only markings are:
Top of barrel:
O. Geyger & Co. Berlin

Side of barrel:
0,15 grN.G.P. M/71
2,14 gr Bl.

Bottom of barrel:
B (with crown) G (with crown)
U (with crown)
611

I like to find out maker, approximate age, approximate value. Picture will follow, if I can figure that out :-)
Halloween 2012 009.jpg

[germanguns1234]

It looks like the pistol was from Georg Scharfenberg and sold by Geyger in Berlin. It was probably made in 1911.

[C. Roger Bleile]

only markings are:
Top of barrel:
O. Geyger & Co. Berlin (Otto Geyger-the retailer)

Side of barrel:
0,15 grN.G.P. M/71 (.15 grams neues Gewehr Pulver M/71- This is the powder charge used by the proofhouse. NGP M/71= new rifle powder for the M1871 mauser army rifle)
2,14 gr Bl. (2.14 gram Blei=33 grain lead bullet)

Bottom of barrel:
crown over B = Mark indicating a single difinitive proof, made with provisional proof charge. Chiefly applied to imported guns.
crown over G = Supplementary mark for barrels firing solid projectiles.
crown over U = definitive proof
611= probably the proof date of June 1911. The date proofs were not universal in Germany until 1923 but were sometimes applied much earlier.

You have a very nice target pistol and it looks to be in excellent condition. A plus to have the original holster with it. How did you come by the pistol?

Regards,
Roger

[ellenbr]

Jon, I was curious how you arrived at the 1911 date until C. Roger posted. Fellas, the "611" is the pre-rifled bore diameter as found in the 1895 supplemental sheet. I think there to be more marks as it was more than likely sourced from Zella-Mehlis. If a date is not present, for the moment I'm hard pressed to say it was sourced from Suhl. If indeed it was made prior to say 1902/19i03 it would being to define a beginning date range for ole O. Geyger.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Treeman]

Pistol showed up in a local gunshop. I had never seen anything like it, had a certain "cool factor", and I just had to have it. Condition is outstanding, excellent, shiny bore, case colors still vivid, tight as a new gun. I was curious as to value, because I'm pretty sure I overpaid, but I just had to have it :-) I was told that it was, most likely, a "bring back" from WW2.

[ellenbr]

I don't recall seeing a target pistol or Tell variant, whatever, peddled by firearms merchant/waffenhändler O. Geyger of Berlin so I wouldn't be surprised at all if it realized a value of $1200 U.S. of A or more.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Jon:
Georg Scharfenberg of Eisenberg bei Mehlis expired in 1906 so did his business continue? I assume you are referring to the German Scheibenpistol, which might have been the Offiziersmodel 1893? Were most chambered in 611 or 5mm Flobert? Did most of the Scharfenbergs have an S engraved in the frame?

Check for a large S on the frame and also for any other marks like D.R.M.S. 20792.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

I forgot to ask: does it have rifling? What's the ATF min., 14", 18" for non-rifled?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[C. Roger Bleile]

Raimey,

Considering the crown/B stamp, is it likely that Geyger imported the parts or at least the barrel?

Roger

[Treeman]

It is rifled, and the rifling is very clear. I was told it is chambered for .22 Long, but I have not tried firing it yet.

[ellenbr]

Roger, I don't think O. Geyger(О.Гейгер ) added much effort at all with some adornment at the very least. It was proofed in the final state and without a date stamp I would guess it was made between 1895 - 1902. I realize that there were date stamp rules but date stamping occurred a bit earlier. I'm not sure when the 0.22" model was offered along side the 5mm Flobert, but I would guess there was a beginning date between 1895 & 1900. Just thinking out loud, if you have a 5mm tube prior to rifling, I guess the diameter could approach 5.56mm. I would think the rifling would be in the 0.3mm range and one would start 527 bore diameter. But the plug gauge is only 1 smaller than the 5,25mm. I guess it could be for the 0.22" Short or 0.22" Long and then there's the LR version. Have you tried to chamber a round?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

If a 0.22" Short doesn't chamber along with the current provided info I would guess it to be chambered for a 5mm or 6mm Flobert.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Treeman]

.22 short chambers easily. .22 LR seems like it may chamber, but snugs up the last 1/8th inch or so. There is also a brass (?) oval plate with the initials "KE" on the rear of the grip. I assumed this is just initials of previous owner?
Also, after trying to find info on "O. Geyger Berlin", some say he was a merchandiser, some say Master Gunsmith. The only guns that I can find with his name are shotguns, and custom Mauser rifles. Any way to find more info on both Geyger, and this pistol?

[germanguns1234]

Geyger was a high-end Berlin shop as well as a "Waffenfabrik." Georg S died in 1906 but his son Heinrich continued the business, according to our German Wiki. Georg patented the lock type in 1893, according to Halfmann and listed it in his catalog for twenty years thereafter. It was made in center fire for the 6.8x25 or for .22. Halfmann says the pistol is stamped 527 for the .22. He also says it is a well-made firearm.

[ellenbr]

Ah Jon, 611 could as easily be for 0.22" as it may depend how the plug gauge push & pull fella felt that day. But I will issue a challenge for anyone, anybody to show me one file mark, one set of initials, one something that O. Geyger did any other thing than scope fitting & the like. It is possible that some effort may exist pre-WWI but the probability for such effort approaches 0 post WWI. I would love for someone to prove me wrong. O. Geyger had to be a master gunsmtih in order to peddled sporting weapons and after he paid for his master party, I think he contributed little and sourced his wares.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse