Any info would be helpful-Old German Shotgun

[ellenbr]

It appears to be a Roux type combined with a Lefaucheux action seeing the forend is attached to the frame. Info on H.(Heinrich?) Roedl/Rödl of Prag(circa 1870-1881?) is somewhat elusive but it appears he was active by the late 1860s and between 1895 and surely by 1900 the firm H. Roedl Prag was the sole agent of Ludwig Loewe in Prag and peddled machinist tools and the like from there on out. Seems by the late 1880 a H. Roedl was a source for ink & supplies as well as an importer of American goods. Could there have been 2 H. Roedls in Prag circa 1900, sure but it would seem odd. In everything I've read the local community refers to H. Roedl as a gunsmith from Germany. Sometime in the latter part of the last decade of the 19th century right after H. Roedl's ejector patent #73742 a Josef Wenisch begins advertising as H. Roedl's successor. My 1st guess was that Josef Wenisch was the son-in-law of H. Rödl but haven't found anything of the like. Note H. Rödl's medals from 1873 forward to 1892.

Can we see some images of the water table/top of the frame as well as the lugs. I wonder if Schmidl was his father-in-law?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[m-4]

Stockel lists, Roedl H. Prag(praha)CS, ca 1870-80 Q474; Q475

m-4

[ellenbr]

Yes M-4, I think that range to be the years H.(Heinrich?) Rödl was active. Really need an image of the top of the frame & the hammers, but it appears to be a transition sporting weapon with both pinfire & centralfire or solely a pinfire. Another required image would be that of the standing breech. It might well be an early 1870s example.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Jay]

More pics

Heres some more pics..sorry quality is not too great..had to take them with my phone. Jay

[ellenbr]

Jay:
Can you email me the image so I can take a better look? I can't tell if there are striker holes in the standing breech or not.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Jay]

striker holes

are you refering to the holes in the top of the barrel right at the breach? If so, yes there are.

[ellenbr]

No, those 1/2 way down on the standing breech. I realize images are difficult but to garner an assessment, quality images of appropriate size are a must.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

I've blown up the images & I can't see any centralfire holes midway nor any protruding strikers so yes it is a pinfire. I would like to see an image of the lumps and any marks fore or aft of those and a view of the trough of the action. From what I've seen the action may be on Purdey's thumb opener being British Patent Nr. 1104 of May 2nd, 1863 or some variant thereof. So if it is based on the Purdey thumb-hole opener a date range would be from the late 1860s to the late 1870s. It may be home-grown or sourced from Austria. Image of any marks may point to a family of makers.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Raimey, Purdey's patent 1104 of 1863 mainly covered the famous, later standard, double underbolting, German: doppelte Laufhakenverriegelung, not the activating of the locking bolt by an underlever. This gun clearly is a single bite snap action, such as patented in GB by Thomas Horsley, # 374 of 1862. Even this is merely a modification of the basic Schneider/Roux action, replacing the Roux round single-bite bolt with a flat one, biting into a notch in the rear barrel lump instead of the former's hole. I agree to your dating, as such pinfire guns were popular on the European continent during the 1860s and 70s, see Zimmer's book.

[ellenbr]

Interesting take there Axel. In my mind I had the Roux action having more separation between the 2 lugs if there were 2.





Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

As the length of the watertable, distance from standing breech to hingepin, was left to the discretion of the maker/actioner, the shape and length of the barrel lumps was variable. And, on the Roux action you show the front lump hooks directly over the hingepin, while on the pinfire discussed here it attaches to the foreend iron which is in turn hinged on the action. This difference alone causes the forward lump to be farther back on the Prague pinfire.

[C. Roger Bleile]

FWIW, I have an Ithaca boxlock, toplever, hammer gun made in 1902 that has the same type of round, beveled locking bolt as the pictured gun.

[algmule]

Hello

I don't know for how long people stay on the board but if you, Jay, are still around here's info on what is on the rib of your double
1877jay43.jpg
1877Jay1.jpg
1877Jay44.jpg
Never you mind about the Ö/OE, they were interchangeable. I've seen ads were Rödl is used instead of Roedl.

EDIT: sorry, the last ad should be December 1877.

EDIT again: ”Bei dem k. k. Handelsgerichte in Prag wurden am 24. September 1877 in das Handelsregister eingetragen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
H. Roedl, Hauptniederlassung in Prag, Nürnbergwaaren-, Waffen- und Munitions-handel. – Zugleich wird die Firma ”Schmidl & H. Roedl” in Folge Auflösung gelöscht.”

Another EDIT: Heinrich Roedl and Isidor Schmidl seem to have set up their business on October 1, 1868. They traded Nürnbergwaaren. In 1871 they advertized looking for a "Werkleiter (Büchsenmacher)" but I can't remember if it was for a Waffenfabrik or a Gewehrfabrik.


Kind regards
Peter

[algmule]

Hello

...... there was however a "Rödl & Schmidl"-business in Prag before 1868. In 1858 there was a company under that name. If H(einrich) was involved or if it was another Rödl I don't know. So what happened in 1868 must have been some change in the company.

EDIT: October 8, 1863, owners of Rödl & Schmidl entered in the business were Florian Rödl and Isidor Schmidl, so Heinrich was not involved in 1863. I have the business Rödl & Schmidl, Prag, in 1850. People involved in the company then is to me unknown.

Kind regards
Peter