Small Caliber Rifle Inserts/Adapters for Drillings (16 ga)

[Old No7]

I was impressed by the wide variety of Small Caliber Rifle Inserts/Adapters for Drillings mentioned in Norbert Klups "The Drilling" book -- and very impressed by the book as well, I should add.

I don't hold out any hopes for finding a German- or Austrian-made rifle insert in 16 gauge on this side of the pond; and to date, all I've found "in 16 gauge" on this side of the pond are short (< 4") SHTF-scenario adapters for 22, 9mm, 38/357 or 45/410 (such as those sold by Short Lane Shotgun Adapters).

--> What I'd really like to do is setup my Drilling so I can go out into the Maine woods each fall with a 16 ga shotgun, an 8mm Mauser rifle -- and a reasonably accurate * small caliber rifle loaded in the other 16 ga tube.

So far, I've found this 12 ga to 22 Hornet adapter for sale; and as it would only need to be reduced by 0.067" in diameter at the front, middle and rear (as well as resizing the rear section for the shorter 16 ga shells) I'm thinking that with some careful machining, this could work for me:



I am curious whether any others here have any:

(a) Thoughts on modifying this insert from 12 down to 16 gauge, or

(b) Info on other U.S. makers (or EU exporters) of 16ga-to-22 (or .222 Rem preferably) shotgun-to-rifle inserts/adapters

Vielen danke.

Old No7

* I've read where one should shoot groups and "clock" or index the insert at 12 or 3 or any other number on a clock, to see where it shoots the best with the Drilling's rifle sites.

[mike ford]

Old No 7,
The "inserts" you mention are known as einstecklaufs (EL) in Germany and are available in most rimfire calibers and centerfire calibers from 22 Hornet to 375 H&H ( heavier calibers only in certain actions). Rimfire and smaller centerfire ELs were/are available in shorter lengths( 22cm-44cm) that are transportable in a pocket or rucksack or even in a buttstock trap. Larger calibers are available full length and adjustable from the muzzle for point of impact. I have used rimfire ELs in my drillings and find them very useful, having taken squirrel, hare, racoon, fox, and bobcat. Since the "statute of limitations" has passed, I can admit to even accidently taking a small whitetail. No rimfire caliber is adequate for deer, but full length ELs are available in many calibers that are. The problems with these are the cost, availability, and installation. All these can be addressed , depending on desire. Sometimes you can find a rimfire EL on Ebay, and sometimes Simpson Ltd. has used ones for sale. There are several German sources, some of which may export to the US, but may insist on installing them to make sure they are properly installed and the action is strong enough. Fortunately this mostly applies to full length centerfire calibers, not the short rimfires. Some German sources are "Frankonia Jagd", Zimmermann, Henneberger, K&S, and others.
With regard to converting a 12 ga. to 16 ga., the general answer would be "no" because of the rifle caliber extractor. The photo of the one you are considering does not show an extractor, so without having it "in hand", it seems possible for it. Regulating it may be problematic, however. One of mine has an "eccentric " at the muzzle which is turned, as you describe, to regulate the point of impact, so it may be possible. My others are regulated at the rear, most of the full length ones are regulated at the muzzle by some form of opposing screws( usually 4) similar to centering a 4 jaw lathe chuck. One of my friends makes a simple version that depends on bending the barrel to regulate it( he made a "jig" to precisely control the amount of bend, determined by shooting). I hope I haven't confused matters.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Not centerfire but, if you watch the on line sales sites you sometimes find one of the Sempert/Frieghoff einstecklauf's. I have seen them in 22LR and 22 Mag. and bought one in 22LR. They ain't cheap but what is?

[nhdblfan]

I have a 16X16X7X65 Fortuna Drilling with a 22 mag insert. Its a partial length,have never removed it,I have shot it and it works great !
Here is a pci from its listing.

German-Fortuna-Drilling-16x16x-7x65R-with-22-mag-insert_100912743_187_DA8024E6F9C7E58C.jpg

[mike ford]

Old no 7,
I noticed the new company( T&G Imports) that had a rather large advertisement in the last WAIDMANNSHEIL has Einstecklaufs for sale. As I remember they are available in 22 MRF, 22 LR, and 17RF , 22cm and 44cm long. These are not that expensive or hard to install. I believe with more expense, time and trouble they can provide full length EL in various centerfire calibers( depending on strength of the action) in full length, adjustable at the muzzle.
Mike

[Old No7]

Thanks Mike! I'll check it out.

Old No7

[Old No7]

Thanks to Mike's tip, I got in touch with Dr. George Inge of T&G German Gun Imports and after a few correspondences back and forth, I bought a short 16 ga Kreighoff 22 Magnum Einstecklauf recently.



Following some ideas on threads from the DoubleGun forum (if I'm not mistaken, I think Mike weighed in on those threads but under a different logon name), I was able to fit the extractor (painstakingly hand filed) to my Drilling's extractor, set the headspace and then slightly file on the 3 adjustable bearing pads to allow it to chamber correctly. The headspace is all set and an unfired 22 Mag chambers easily, and extracts well, and the action closes just fine with no binding evident.



I'm not sure how it will shoot yet, but I have read that bore-sighting is the preferred way to "get it close". Right now, it isn't hitting the shotgun barrel -- which is great! -- but I think it is aimed a little too low. Lacking any installation instructions at all, I am taxing my gunsmithing, logic and observational powers to do what I think needs to be done.

I believe I will have to adjust (as in "file" some more) the two upper adjusting pads as they are both bottomed out and I cannot to just shift one side to adjust for windage. For one to move more left, the other one has to move right by that same amount. Another way to think of it is they are both at "-3" now on a scale that runs from -3 up to - to +3. If I can adjust them (with a file) so that both will be at "zero", then one could be adjusted to be +2 while the other could be set to be -2. They slide on a ramped surface, but are snug in the 16 gauge chamber and won't allow for any windage adjustments as fit (and I think this is probably pretty common with a new Einstecklauf, where it was never fit to another barrel before).

I also think that the elevation adjustment, via the larger bottom adjusting/locking pad, will need some more work too. In order for that to lift the front of the unit/barrel, the top pads will have to give some; but as noted before, they're snug as fit for now. Well, after all that -- here it is -- all installed with the 3 chambers "loaded for bear" -- or should I say for "Fox, pheasant and red stag".



As noted, there is more work to come with the adjustments to get it to shoot where the sights are looking, but so far, I am pleased with how this project came out. If anyone has any tips or tricks about adjusting the 3 bearing pads, I'd appreciate your insights. It would be good to know if I'm on the right track and my assumptions about the adjustments are correct.

Vielen danke to Mike for his tip about T&G, as they were a great company to work with on this.*

Old No7

* ps: The stated mission of Dr. George Inge and Tobias Nisse from T&G German Gun Imports is to "Save The Guns" -- a noble cause, if I do say so.

[mike ford]

Old No.7,
You should be very hesitant to file the pads. Note I didn't say don't do it, just be sure that is what is required. I noticed you said the bullet strikes the barrel. In this case, corrective action may be opposite that which would be intuitive. Most drilling ELs are made to be installed into the righthand shot barrel. My German gunsmith friend installed one of these in the top barrel of an O/U combination gun (BF) for me. To regulate it, he had to make extreme adjustments on one side. Since it was "bottomed out" , he removed one of the screws holding the pad, which allowed the pad to move past being bottomed out. You might try this, before filing the pad, be sure to safeguard the screw though. He made final adjustment by tightening the "locking pad" more, which brings up another point. To reinstall an EL after removal, it must be tightened the same amount to keep the same POI. For this reason, I hardly ever remove mine. If it is removed for cleaning, it should be shot to verify the sighting, which means it is again "dirty". I have chosen to ignore this, knowing it may leave a ring in the barrel, since I only use non-corrosive ammo. Good luck.
Mike

[Old No7]

Thank you Mike, your cautions are noted and your response does give me an idea to pursue...

There are 2 small screws holding each small adjusting pad; so if I remove 1 screw on each that may allow me some more movement while still being able to snug it down (which would help make it somewhat repeatable and also hold test adjustments during the tedious sighting-in process).

Any filing I've done so far was necessary just to get it to seat and headspace correctly, as it was a full 1/2" proud of the chamber face when I first started but it would easily seat with either the large or one of the small adjusting pads removed; and that's what told me the pads (bearing surfaces) were a little oversized to my chamber.

I'll shoot it before I do anything else.

I can't see the bottom of the 16 ga barrel through the insert, but it is aimed very low... I don't think it will hit -- but it won't be close to the target I'll be aiming at either.

For sure, from here on out I'll proceed very slowly and carefully -- I can actually hear my late father's voice saying: "Be careful... Those darn metal take-off tools work much better than the metal put-on tools."

I'll report back here when I have an update.

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old No7,
A German gunsmith would have a special, correctly sized tool( counterbore, for lack of a better term) to help with adjusting the 16 ga rim recess to fit the "headspacing" screw. Having to work without one is one of the things that made your job harder. You can see what is actually required by your drilling, I can't see it. You should trust your own considered judgement and regard my comments only suggested considerations. Just remember that there is not much damage you can do to the EL that someone else can't repair, if necessary.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Well #7, it's been a while, didja get it sighted in? It can be a bit confusing as they don't adjust "windage and elevation", they adjust in an "X" so, as you noted, if you move one you have to move the other.

I had to order new slide adjusters for mine. The ones on it were filed to fit another chamber and had been filed entirely too low for my old chamber. I had mine sighted in with about 30 rounds, after I determined which brand of 22 ammo shot the best and, as with Mike, I do not remove mine, fouling be darned! Off a rest mine will hold "minute of squirrel head" at 35 yards.....about as far as I can see to shoot that accurately.

[Old No7]

Well #7, it's been a while, didja get it sighted in? It can be a bit confusing as they don't adjust "windage and elevation", they adjust in an "X" so, as you noted, if you move one you have to move the other.

I had to order new slide adjusters for mine...

Dang it... No.........................

Work and other shooting projects have delayed any further progress on this Drilling and Einstecklauf.

Plus I spent the months of December and January into mid-February working with a BP .58 caliber Zouave, shooting lead Minie Balls, which I used in a "Primitive Biathlon" -- 1.5 miles through the woods, running on wood/rawhide snowshoes, while engaging targets at unknown distances at 3 stops along the route. It was shot while you were winded with your heart pumping, and it was a balmy 5 degrees out when we started. Luckily, I was dressed as a Civil War Union 1st Sergeant, so I had a wool uniform on. Some of the "Mountain Men" with their leather leggings and linen hunting shirts froze their arses off that day!

Anyway...

Where did you buy the slide adjusters, direct from Kreighoff?

Not sure I'll need them, but just in case, I'd like to know. Thanks.

Old No7

[sharps4590]

Yes sir, I called Krieghoff in Pennsylvania. At that time they had none in stock so they had to order them from Germany. Still, I believe I had them in less than two weeks.

I used to cross country ski a lot but never did a biathlon. Then I used to be 50 and in a lot better shape. That and we don't get enough snow here anymore to build a miniature snowman. Ahhh?.I miss my Wyoming days!!!