adjusting 1903 M-S carbine rifle factory sights

[stumpstalker]

Would a Member be willing to advise me on adjusting what I assume to be factory fixed sights on a 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine?

My rifle is printing about 5 inches to the left at 25 yards.

It looks like there in a miniscule set screw for the two-leaf rear sight on the barrel. The Chapman No. 9600 Gun Screw Driver Kit does not appear to have an adjustment tool that would fit the tiny concavity I am looking at.

Additionally, I have had so little experience adjusting fixed sights I do not know at what point an attempt by me to adjust becomes an unintended removal.

[mike ford]

stumpstalker,
To adjust the rear sight, move it in the direction you want the bullet to go. It will have to be done by "move and try", and a small movement of the sight will move the bullet a fair amount. Obtain a small screwdriver and grind/file it to fit the slot precisely. You may need to pad the rifle, hold it in a drill press vise under the spindle . Use the drill press chuck only to hold downward pressure on the screwdriver, to keep it from "riding out of the slot".
Mike

[sharps4590]

Tap and shoot, tap and shoot.

[stumpstalker]

Thank you both for answering my questions.

sharps4590: I would assume since there is a set-screw involved, that I should also be loosening and re-securing the set-screw between successive shooting/adjusting. (That is, I suppose, unless there is sufficient friction to temporarily hold the lateral position of the sight, while seeking the correct windage adjustment.)

[Axel E]

If there is a set screw on the rear sight of your 03 M-S carbine, it is not factory original. Please, post a photo of that arrangement.

[sharps4590]

As it has a set screw it's entirely possible all that's required is loosening it, unless it's stuck from years of crud It might slide easily or it might not. Like all things a fella undertakes that he isn't familiar with, make haste slowly. It isn't rocket science.

[stumpstalker]

Axel and Sharps4590:

I took a close look with a jeweler's loupe, and it does not appear to be a set screw after all. It just looks like a tiny depression/concavity or mini-dimple. If so, what would be it's purpose?
No camera in the house, so the best I can do right now is supply the drawing below.

There is a fore and aft scribed mark in the brass sight, and one on the steel "turret" on the rifle, which are almost but not exactly in line. The "dimple" is on the "turret" just to the right.

[sharps4590]

Could be just a dimple to stake the brass base in place. Given my artistic skills, that's a good rendition!!!

[Axel E]

Any brass rearsight part on a Mannlicher-Schoenauer is not factory original, but made by someone else later.

[mike ford]

pod,
The two "fore and aft" marks are part of a "witness mark" that was struck when the rifle was sighted in, at one time. That the marks no longer line up means the rear sight was moved, and if you line them back up the gun should work with whatever load it was sighted for. The dimple in the base is from a center punch and is intended to tighten the dovetail the rear sight is sitting in.
Mike

[stumpstalker]

Mike:

All that makes sense. The witness mark I now see actually does line up quite well, now that I have looked squarely at it with a magnifying glass.

And the punch mark on the steel “base” does look like it has squeezed metal just barely enough against the sliding brass piece to have secured it.

Thus, would it be a better option for me to tap the front sight (which does not appear to be similarly “fixed”) to the left to get the rifle to hit more to the right?

I thank you and your colleagues for assisting me. If the job involves something even slightly advanced I am happy to engage a smith for it.

[mike ford]

stumpstalker,
If the front sight dovetail is perpendicular to the barrel, you could move either one to sight it in, just remember move the front sight opposite the way you want the bullet to go, but move the rear one the way you want the bullet to go. As for myself, unless the front sight has been knocked out of place, I would sight it in with the rear sight.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Well, I guess "slightly advanced" depends on your definition and your mechanical skills. I agree with Mike, move the rear sight. It isn't rocket science to adjust the rear sight, tap an go slowly. You might have to tap it a bit harder if it is staked in place but once that resistance has given up it shouldn't take a lot. Then, once sighted in, you can "re-stake" it.

[JDL]

It will help a lot to make a removable mark on barrel and sight to judge the amount of travel of the sight. A pencil mark or a tiny piece of tape does well for the witness mark.

[stumpstalker]

This experience calls to mind the famous Yogi Berra quote: “You can observe a lot by just watching.”

Having put my strongest eye-glasses; a couple different magnifiers and a jeweler’s loupe on this rifle sight over the last few days I have disabused myself of it having a set-screw or a brass piece in the dove-tail cut.

So I suspect that the sights are factory after-all; they surely accord with the common technical drawings I have seen of the M-S 1903 carbine.

I think I’m going to take a breather on this one. My aging eyes probably should abjure hunting with open sights (my other rifles have either a ‘scope sight or aperture sights); and I neither have the shop equipment nor confidence in my hand-work to go beyond tapping with anything more persuasive than a wooden dowel and mallet (which thus far have moved nothing).

Too bad those Lyman No. 36 “peep” sights are so elusive.

Out of curiosity alone I will probably take it with me the next time I visit a gunsmith.

Thanks to all who have responded.