To Scope or Not to Scope: That is the question

[Doug Kellermann]

The field grade 16/16x8x57irs Greifelt does not have a scope. I am seriously contemplating the addition of a scope. The gun is in excellent condition and has basically been a safe queen for 50-80 years.

Do I add a scope or leave it without a scope?

When did scopes on drillings become popular in Germany?

thanks

Doug

[Büchsemann]

Doug,

First I have to assume that the gun does not have claw bases or another design of mounts.

If it does not the collector side of me says do the best that you can with the iron sights and leave the old treasure as is. It makes me cringe to say this but being a hunter and shooter as well, and with adding scope mounts being much like opening chokes or lengthening chambers to me, I have to say it's pretty much up to the current owner. If you have NECG (New England Custom Guns) or another individual or group known for doing a nice job with such modifications mount a scope for you you'll have a nice piece that you can use well into your years as an older gent without having to be concerned too much over your possible future vision issues.

Doing so is nothing new but it’s generally frowned upon by the "purist" types.

… A little more than two cents but there you go, an opinion.

Büchseman

[Doug Kellermann]

Buchsemann,

None of my drillings are pristine. They are all in good to excellent condition, but all have had work to get them to shooting condition.

If the Greifelt was engraved with the top of the line features (stagshorn trigger guard, seperate rifle extractor, upgraded wood) I would not consider adding a scope. The Greifelt has had the stock repaired.

My understanding is many of the scoped drillings had the scope added at a later date.

How does the "purist" types view this modification? Or stock repairs?

[Büchsemann]

Good morning Doug,

I was going by your comment "The gun is in excellent condition and has basically been a safe queen for 50-80 years" thus I commented as I did. I would have to assume that most have their own ideas as to what "excellent condition" is with many referencing NRA standards. For a starter you're saying that the stock has been repaired and if I have this correct I believe that in an earlier post you said you have opened the chokes and extended the chambers on all of your drillings so to me (personal opinion) you are well past the burden of having to worry about making further modifications. If you don't have bases there is a quite a bit of work to do thus it can be a rather expensive ordeal. Because the bases, the rings, the scope, a possible re-blue of the barrels and labor generally runs more ($) than what many have into their lower end guns a lot of people pass on the idea. Give NECG a call and tell them what you have in mind. They're pretty good at giving folks a rough idea of what the expense will be. If you already have a scope available for the job you’ll obviously be saving yourself some funds. When you get a rough estimate please post the figure, I'm curious as to what they're asking for such a job these days. I like having scopes on many of my guns as my eyes aren't what they used to be. I suspect that having a scope on your drilling will get you to take it out and use it more so it's all good really.

Büchsemann

[mike ford]

Doug,
Virtually all old drillings had the scope added later.Factory bases are a recent thing,and then only a couple "makes". The location of clawmount bases is very much dependent on the scope to be mounted, so they had to wait until there was an owner and he chose a scope.I hear all the time about some drilling having "factory bases", but this hardly ever happened.A factory would only take in one of their own guns for mounting a scope, but even then "farmed" the work out to a local gunsmith. They didn't want to slow their production line down. The new factory bases are usually for either "swing" or "slide on" mounts,which are not so location sensitive.
If a stock is damaged, it has to be repaired. I guess I'm a little bit at odds with some of the "purist" types ideas. I guess it's because I lived and hunted in Germany for a good while (I had about 11 annual hunting licenses)and "hung out" in a gunsmith's shop ( I even wore hunting clothes-lederhosen-to work, most days in my second-civilian employee-tour of duty). I only knew one hunter(he was American) that didn't have a scope on his rifles( he had to make a "probeschuss"-test shot- everywhere he hunted) and I was able to convince him to let Walter mount a scope on his drilling. It is my opinion, and I know others disagree, that a drilling(or BBF,or BF,or KLB) is severly handicapped without a scope.It is pretty hard for me to get very upset over small changes to working guns, after watching Walter change a "boxlock"(really trigger plate) o/u shotgun to a "sidelock" o/u combination gun.I understand that some guns should be saved for historical reasons, but don't consider them "working guns".
If you have a scope mounted, now I would reccomend good swing mounts such as EAW or ERA. They would give you much more flexibility and will also return to Zero every time. I hope I didn't create too much controversy.
Mike

[Doug Kellermann]

Mike

thanks for the input. I know this is a rather interesting topic which is why I asked the question. But I did not want it to get to a heated discussion....

Personally I am torn about scoping or not scoping on this gun. I have 2 scoped 16x16/8x57ir guns and this is the 16x16/8x57irs in field grade.


Büchsemann

I have used JJ Perodeau for all my repairs int he past and know what he will charge for adding the scope...


for me this is an interesting question given the condition of this gun...

Doug

[Büchsemann]

Doug,

I'm thinking you have yourself one of those gut and pocket book combos with regards to a decision. It wouldn't be the "end of the world" if you scoped the gun and then again it's also a rather pricey decision to contemplate given the grade of the firearm. Having a couple other scoped 8X57's couldn't be making your decision any easier. I can't see your issue as being anything to stir up "heated" discussion though. I understand perfectly where Mike is coming from and all seems very practical to me. If it weren't for the expense and you having the other two (scoped 8X57's) the decision would appear to me to be pretty much of a coin toss. It would be nice to see others chime in but perhaps they haven't because they have a rather neutral stand on the issue as well.

Regards,

Büchsemann

PS - If you do have it scoped by JJ Perodeau please post some pictures, I'd like to see his work.

[sharps4590]

Opinions...the world is fraught with them!....lol. As I've said before, if modifying the firearm will allow one to use it more or to better effect and that is of importance, do so. I go to great lengths to keep older firearms in original condition, if one can consider using a Merrit device or a piece of black electricians tape with a 1/8 in. hole punched in it over my lenses great lengths. Using either will sharpen the open sights and allow me to shoot well past the distance I could without using either method. Both are a bit limiting early and late in the day. Neither will allow one to shoot as well as can be done with a scope and to say otherwise simply isn't true. Where 95% of my hunting is done a 100 yard shot is about as long as it's going to get so a scope isn't of so much importance. Having hunted with muzzleloaders for close to 40 years I like to get close anyway. Other areas of the country differ, obviously, and a scope may almost be a necessity. I think it comes down to what's important to you. I wouldn't do it but keeping the firearm original is what's imortant to me. Convenience of use and effectiveness is more important to others and neither is more right or wrong than the other.

Part of that....feeling.....belief....may come from my observations that there are so few original old sports cars left from the 40's, 50's and 60's. I'm fortunate to own one from the early 1970's but don't consider it a true "classic". Bamboo fly rods are another passion of mine and the list of originals there is also rather a short list. I own a few vintage rods also but the good ones, the Dickersons, Paynes, et al are beyond my means. An item is only original once. Another source for the "opinion" is no doubt my sense of history and almost 4 decades of reenacting both Mountain Men and the last 10 years or so, the post-Revolution era and acting as a volunteer at historical sites across Missouri. When I want to experience the way things were done "back when", I don't want modern conveniences to interfere with that experience. It is certain that one cannot replicate the 18th century in the 21st century but the hope is that enough distractions can be eliminated that there is hopefully some semblance of "how it was". Anyway, there's my two coppers.

[mike ford]

Everybody has to decide for themselves,and having other scoped drillings is a big part of the process together with the cost. A scope to me is not just for long distances, pine thickets get very dark, even if its not past time to shoot,and a scope gives you a shot when open sights wouldn't. Also, I've shot 7 or 8 from the off shoulder(left), which was only practical with a scope and set trigger. In low light, with a 6x scope with 7mm exit pupil, you see at 60 yards what you would see at 10 yards with your naked eye.
Mike