Request Infomation on a three barrel shotun

[mkhazlewood]

I bought this three barrel shotgun a couple of years ago and I am looking for some information on its history if possible, pictures attached..

[mike ford]

mkhazelwood,
Your three barreled gun bottom barrel is likely (or at least was) intended as a rifle barrel. Such guns are called Drillings, after the German word "Drei", which means three. If you look through the bottom barrel, you should see rifling or the remains of rifling. The crown V mark on the locking lug is called a "Vorrat Zeichnen". It is the mark placed on guns that were "in stock" on the day the 1891 proof law took effect on 1 April 1893. It is not a proofmark per se , rather it documents that the gun was made before proof was required. The "lever" at the right hand firing pin is the barrel selector, which allows firing either the right hand shotgun barrel or the rifle barrel, as chosen by the shooter. The meaning of the "HS" and "80" is not clear. The "HS" might be the barrel makers "touchmark" , the "80" might be some designation of caliber, but it falls between two of those designated by the 1891 proof law( remember it was made before the law). It would be easy enough to determine the caliber(gauge) of the shotgun barrels, by checking with modern shotshells. Keep in mind, however, the chambers will be too short for modern shells and would have been intended for black powder. While I could not see one, there should be a folding rear sight, let into the top rib of the gun. There is a "peep sight" that folds into the top tang. This is not used alone in the common way, rather it is used together with the folding rear sight to bring the front sight into clearer focus. To determine the nominal caliber of the rifle barrel, it will be necessary for you to make( or have someone else make) a chamber cast and "slug" the barrel. If there any other marks on the gun, it would be helpful if you post photos of them. I hope this has been of some help.
Mike

[mkhazlewood]

Thank you Mike!
I am also a Mike, I will post more pictures tomorrow. I can not find any more markings, the last photo is the bottom of the butt plate which covers three hols I assume they are for two shotgun cartridges and one rifle cartridge. There is a peep sight in the top tang will take a photo of it also.
Thank you for your very helpful information, will be in touch soon..

[mkhazlewood]

Mike,
Photos attached shows rear peep sight and front sight, I thought the numbers on the butt plate might be the serial numbers is this possible? Notice the right hammer is damaged and I was wondering if and where I might obtain a replacement? Also if its not any trouble who could you recommend I talk to about what this shotgun might be appraised at? Thank you!!
IMG_0926.jpg
IMG_0929.jpg

[Old No7]

Notice the right hammer is damaged and I was wondering if and where I might obtain a replacement?

I'm no expert, but that hammer (per the images of the left one) looks "so unique" I'm thinking a replacement would be very difficult to find -- if at all. You may be better finding a good gunsmith who could weld on an extension and then file & finish it to match the left hammer. It won't be cheap, but would help maintain its value I'd think. If it were mine, that's the direction I'd head in and I'd have that done before any appraisal was made.

Viel Glueck! (good luck)

Old No7

[mike ford]

mkhazelwood,
I agree with Old No7 that repair of the hammer is the best solution. The thumbpiece on a hammer of one of my guns has been repaired in a similar manner. I found a hammer in my "junk pile" that was similar and with enough "meat" to allow filing to match; and Pat Felix of Felix Custom Guns in Cusseta Ga. cut and welded the thumbpiece onto the hammer. He filed it to match and duplicated the checkering/engraving. He made a matching complete hammer for a mutual friend and you couldn't tell one from the other. There may be others that can do this work that live closer to you. I don't usually estimate the value of someone else's guns that I don't have "in hand". As far as the number on the butt plate is concerned, it might be intended as a serial number, but it is not the normal location and if it were made after 1968 would not be acceptable in that location for ID purposes.
Mike

[mkhazlewood]

Good morning Old No7 and Mike,
Thank you both for your expertise pertaining to my shotgun much appreciated! I am going to a gun show this weekend that I attend yearly and will try to find someone that would be able to help me contact someone who could match the damaged hammer and restore it to its original state..
Again thank you very much!!
Mike

[mike ford]

Mike,
You are welcome, good luck.
Mike

[Axel E]

From "Der Waffenschmied", Suhl 1881: Three designs of early hammer drillings

This drilling is made to the design of Oberhammer, Munich. Peter Oberhammer had "his" guns made to his design by the Suhl guntrade. His design was the first breechloading drilling, patented in Feb. 1878 , DRPatent Nr. 2795 . The patent expired in 1890, but guns were made to the public domain design by others too.

[algmule]

Hello

Is this the Diopter?

vvv.JPG

As I'm temporarily on linguistic leave you'll have to do with German.

Der königl. Baierische Hofbüchsenmacher P. Oberhammer in München hat vor Kurzem ein Umlegdiopter eingeführt, welches, wie “Zwinger und Feld” schreibt, einen sehr sicheren Kugelschuß, auch in weit vorgeschrittener Dämmerung, ermöglicht.

Hofbüchsenmacher Oberhammer bringt bei seinen Büchsflinten zwei Diopter an, eines mit großer Visiröffnung, das durch einen Druck mit dem Daumen (also im Anschlage ausführbar) in die Höhe springt und auf etwa 100 meter Kernschuß eingestellt ist und ein unter diesem liegendes Diopter, das man in die Höhe Klappen kann, wie die gewöhnlichen Diopter, welches eine feinere Oeffnung hat und auf einen um 100 meter weiteren Kernschuß eingestellt ist, somit die “zweite Klappe des Hochvisires” ersetzt. Dasselbe ist für weitere Schusse auf stehendes Wild – also namenlicht im Gebirge – berechnet. Fig. 23 zeigt das geöffnete Springdiopter, Fig. 24 die beiden Diopter.

Diese Diopter können auf jeder Büchse angebracht warden, der Preis beträgt Mk. 10-15.


The long and short of the above is one sight for 100 meter and then you may adjust it out to a further 100 meter for game standing still, apparently useful in mountain terrain. Axel, if you're not busy, perhaps you could do a translation??

Also: is the above the D.R.P. 59021?

Kind regards
Peter

[mkhazlewood]

Thank you Axel E and Peter very interesting history..
Thanks again,
Mike

[Axel E]

QUOTE=älgmule: Is this the Diopter?
Yes, it is the diopter mounted on the drilling. It was patented by Peter Oberhammer, Munich, December 1890 as DRPatent # 59021. As this patent was still valid by 1893 and the cheekpiece is of "Bavarian" shape, the drilling was certainly made by or for Oberhammer 1891 to March 1893.
The requested translation of the text you found:
The gunmaker to the royal Bavarian court Peter Oberhammer in Munich has recently introduced a folding down peep sight, which, according to "Kennel and Field", allows a very certain rifle aim, even at advanced dusk.
Oberhammer mounts two peep sights on his combination guns, one with a large aperture, that jumps up on thumb pressure (may be done with the gun mounted) and is regulated for about 100 meters. And a second peep sight below, that may be folded up like the ordinary tang peep sights, having a smaller aperture and is regulated for additional 100 meters (=200 m). So it replaces the "second leaf of the open sight". This is meant for farther shots at standing game -namely in the mountains-. Fig. 23 shows the opened spring loaded diopter, Fig. 24 both sights opened.
These peep sights may be mounted on any rifle. The price is Mark 10 – 15.

[mkhazlewood]

Thank you Axel E!
Sorry for the late reply, I get a lot of looks during my annual gun show display. Is there anybody you know that might be able to give me a ball park value of it?
Thanks again,
Mike