Brenneke Rifle Identification Help!

[7539]

I have a rifle that is marked the following way:

Wilhelm Brenneke, Leipzig
Brenneke Hochlistung Spatrone Cal. 7 x 64
barrel marking - Bohler-Antinit-Stahl
the receiver is marked with the DRGM "trademark"
It has several different proof marks, of which I will photograph tomorrow, including an R, a U, an 88 all with crowns over them. The bolt is marked 986 under it. The front sight has a serial number of 42986. This gun is engraved on the metal areas and is a LONG gun - a 33" barrel. The sling hooks appear original. I do know that it has been rechambered for 30.06
I have the basic Brenneke information - but - did he make his own guns? I read that he did and they didn't have model numbers. Is this somebody's else's gun because it has no other maker name on it. It has the scope mount on it, the type to raise it above the bolt. It is excellently balanced.
I wanted to have a rough idea of year made. Value would be nice but maybe better for another forum.
I can post more pictures but maybe you can get a basic picture of the gun. The bluing is beautiful...maybe reblued? if so, an excellent job.
Any help would be appreciated.

[7539]

actually -

I don't KNOW if it has been rechambered to 30.06 but that's what I was told. The hillbilly shooting it may have been using 30.06 because the round fits in the chamber. It shows no indication marks of being rechambered. That being said, I have no proof that it hasn't

[Axel E]

This rifle seems to be an early Brenneke "Modell A" rifle with the 3/4 length foreend. The oval stock reinforcements point to an early, 1920s, date. Sorry, but your photos don't show the right, bolthandle side of the rifle. Apparently there is the Brenneke bolthandle hold-down device mounted in front of the bolthandle. The photo of the magazine floorplate may point to the fact that the rifle is built on a commercial Mauser Oberndorf Magnum length action, as some of Brenneke's 7x64 rifles were. The crown/R "repair" proofmark you noted shows that the rifle underwent a major alteration, perhaps a rebore-rechambering to 30-06, before 1940. Please, have the bore and chamber checked by a chamber cast! Usually, a 30-06 with it's .308" bullet does not fit into a 7x64 chamber and .284" bore. The proofmarks you note are apparently visible on the outside of the rifle. The original proofmarks with the proof date should be on the underside of the barrel, so take the rifle apart and have a look. All known pre-WW2 "Brenneke" bolt-action rifles were made for Wilhelm Brenneke, Leipzig by Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl, so look for a tiny ESHA trademark stamp. "Hochleistungspatrone" is "high power cartridge", comparing Brenneke's 7x64 to the then standard 7x57.

[7539]

more photos

I don't know if I am supposed to do this here, but all the photos so far are located online at http://s959.photobucket.com/albums/a...ealestate/gun/

Thanks for all the help so far. Does the rebore affect the value as much as I think it does? I would be curious.

[Büchsemann]

7539,

Thank you for posting the info and pictures of your Model A. Your Photobucket album does a lot to show the overall condition of the piece. From what I can see I think that your barrel "blue" is original and the receiver retains much of its original case colors. Actually the whole gun appears to be in original condition to include the well worn and no doubt rather crispy rubber recoil pad, which per an early Brenneke catalog I have (that is sold in the GGCA bookstore BTW), was a factory option. Having what could likely be the original sling is a nice touch as well. I have not seen the bullet trap release that your gun has before. Not too long ago I picked up a Model B that has the more traditional lever release on the bullet trap. Engraved on the trap plate directly under the release lever is "ESHA" which as Axel has said is the stamp of E. Schmidt & Habermann. Also, as Axel has said, have a chamber cast made so you know exactly what you're dealing with. An assumption having to do with what cartridge the gun is chambered for could have disastrous results.
Your 33" barrel is incredibly long, from where are you taking the measurement? The 1925 Brenneke catalog that I referenced earlier notes barrel length options of 60 to 65 cm (24" - 26"). My Model "B" has a 28" barrel so apparently earlier on longer barrels where available. For the record my "B" is stamped with the number 41790.

Regards,

Büchsemann

[7539]

value

I have also contacted Brenneke Germany but was this gun made for big game hunting due to the and scope mount or sniper? Does the rechambering hurt the value? How do i value it? Thanks for all the information.

[7539]

Also will post some close up pictures in a bit. Taking to a gunsmith tomorrow to verify the caliber

[7539]

I measured the barrel from the tip to the face of the receiver with the bolt withdrawn

[Büchsemann]

7539,

It's very hard for most here to help you with the value of the piece as it generally takes a close examination to accurately do so. Also there are many that aren't familiar with Brenneke's works who wouldn't see them having any more value than a standard issue Mauser sporter while others, such as me, find them more interesting than others. As a collector I will say that if the gun has been rechambered I would have to think about it more before making a decision to purchase. The 7X64 Brenneke, if I'm recalling correctly, was developed by Wilhelm Brenneke in 1917 and became quite a popular cartridge in Europe. It is still a favorite of many. Are you looking to buy the gun from someone or is your interest in value that of idle curiosity or for insurance purposes?

Büchsemann

[7539]

I already own the gun. I was just curious as to value since they're aren't many out there evidently.

[Büchsemann]

33" is pretty wild.

Back in the day they thought the longer the better for accuracy until the "barrel whip" thing was detected and seen as a bad thing.

[Büchsemann]

It is said that old Wilhelm Brenneke put his name on only 400 guns (I haven't seen it confirmed as yet) so all stamped as such should be considered rather scarce.

[7539]

I remeasured it with someone smarter than I and it is 28 1/2" barrel. I was counting the reciever chamber and I shouldn't.

[7539]

i posted some more pictures on the photobucket site http://s959.photobucket.com/albums/a...ealestate/gun/

[mike ford]

I agree with Axel and Buechsemann that a chamber cast is necessary to determine the chambering, in light of the repair proof and the fact that it seems that the previous owner was using 30-06 ammo.On the other hand, when 7x64 cases were not avaliable, it was common to neckdown 30-06 cases to load 7x64 ammo. As Axel mentioned, 30-06 uses a bullet enough larger that you can tell if it has been rebored or not, by simply measuring the groove diameter with the "inside" jaws of a caliper( this won't ID chamber), before making chamber cast. In support of the reboring theory, the barrel shank seems to be marked, similar to a pipe wrench having been improperly used to remove the barrel. The proper way of measuring barrels is to insert a cleaning rod into the barrel, until it is stopped by the breech face,mark the rod at the muzzle, measure between the mark and end of rod. All in all, this is very interesting and the rifle is really nice to have.
Mike