5.6 vH update

[wernerhelm]

good day to all
My reloader and I finally got some of the 60 grain Raptor solid brass bullets made by Cutting Edge loaded up. we started at 46 grains of RL19 and loaded up to 52 grains. We shot 3 of the 46 grain loads and velocities ranged from 3131 to 3219. However, the casings were ruined due to cracks at the necks (due to the case forming) being minorly split. NO other pressure issues were noticed. Needless to say, we did not shoot any other of the loads because the velocity was faster that I wanted.
We also did not want to ruin any more of the cases either.
We are going to re do the cartridges with lighter powder loads.
I will post those results also. I've attached a pic(hopefully if I can figure it out) of the group at 100 yards

[mike ford]

wernerhelm,
That is a good group. Did you form the cases? If so, what donor cases were used? You shouldn't think you are the only one this happened to. My rifle is the rimmed version and have been using very rare 30-06 rimmed cases, so I am very reluctant to lose any of them. I find that if a case folds in on it self, even if you can straighten it out, it will split. Annealing is important, but if you get it too soft, the case will collapse. I found some 8x56R blanks( forward part of case formed to resemble a bullet)and have been working with them. They have their own problems. I have recently just thrown up my hands and started using my few original Berdan primed cases. Otherwise we just have to do the best we can and then take very good care of the few cases that don't split. One of our members starts with 25-06, I think he has better luck than I and it looks like you have. Could you post a photo of the Cutting Edge bullets.
Mike

[Diz]

wernerhelm,

That is a nice group and I would like to hear more details about the bullet. I have been to the Cutting Edge site but they only show bullets at .224" and all are pretty light weight. One issue with loading smaller bullets than spec is trying to hold them in the case. If you neck size to fit the bullet, than there is a good deal of stretch on firing that could cause splits. However, as Mike mentioned, annealing is very important on this case but I find that I have to fully anneal a 25-06 right down to the rear edge of the shoulder in order to get well formed cases. That makes for a very slow process to set the shoulder back without collapsing and I mean very slow. You will still loose a few even then but afterward they will not split or give any trouble after that. I re-anneal mine every four to five reloads even though I neck size only. That may seem extreme but with the effort needed to make the case, I do everything I can to protect them.

I was a little surprised that the velocity wasn't higher with the 60 grain bullet and that load but that's what makes it interesting.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
I talked to the Cutting Edge folks some time ago, the lighter weights are necessary because heavier bullets would be too long if made of solid brass or copper. I asked about .227-.228" bullets, but a special run would require an obligation to buy a certain number of bullets( I no longer remember the number). I couldn't "gin up" enough interest to meet the minimum.
Mike

[wernerhelm]

Thanks for all of the responses and inquiries. Diz has been a great help and a wealth of knowledge in my process-- the last 2 years or so--in getting the casings made. My reloader and i start with 25-06 cases and yes indeed it is a slow process. Some of cases will crimp at the shoulder and some do not... Regardless of the outcome I treat the reformed cases as gold. When I first bought my rifle, I had requested pricing for casings imported from a store in germany and that was really expensive.
I revisited the cutting edge site, and here is the link.
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/228-60gr-fb-raptor
they also offer a solid
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/228-66gr-fb-solid
On their site, they reference this bullet to use for a 22 high power so I assumed they would be safe for the 5.6VH. They are listed as .228 diameter. Thoughts?
loaded 5.6.jpg

[Diz]

Wernerhelm, thanks for the kind words but you and your friend have done all the work. Trust me that the cartridge you show is as good as any and better than most. The shoulder is especially good and indicates the effort you put into making these. A little lube dent is almost unavoidable and no consequence after firing. My opinion on the 22 Hi Power bullet is that it should be better all around especially for fitting the bore. Mike is correct about bullet length in the solid copper bullets. I have made a few with lead cores up to 100 grains and they look like pencils but still stabilize. Pressures are not too good though and hard to manage. Looks like you are doing pretty well with the project and continued good luck. Best, Diz

[mike ford]

I'm happy .228" is an available diameter now. The problem with 22 Sav.HP bullets was always that they were very limited as to velocity, that shouldn't apply to these bullets. I agree with Diz, your ammo looks good.
Mike

[wernerhelm]

We dropped the powder load down to 43.8. Fired 6 rounds and the velocity ranged from 3047 fps to3308 fps. THe cases showed no damage to pressure issues as these cases did not have the pronounced crip/weak spot on the neck. We are going to drop down the powder load more to around 40 grains. My goal is to be around 2800 fps.

[mike ford]

wernerhelm,
If all you want is 2800 fps, you should be able to use the normal .227-228" 70 gr. cup and core bullets satisfactorily. They didn't start giving me trouble until velocity reached about 3000 fps. The cup and core bullets will likely be cheaper also.
Mike

[Diz]

wernerhelm, you may run into trouble of having too low a loading density when trying to slow this one down. It can be a problem with large cases and small bores. I think your velocity spread indicates that you are in that territory, so be careful.

I ran your load using a Barnes solid 62 grain bullet as it was as close as I could get. Calculated with 43.8 grains of R-19:

Fill = 73.9%
Pmax = 31146 psi
Vel = 2956 fps
Burn = 86.63%
Eff = 14.4%

I checked the Hornady site and couldn't find the 70 grain Hi-Power bullet listed and it may be discontinued. It should work well at 2800 if you can get a consistent load around that speed. I believe the original Hi-Power ran at 2750 fps. Did you shoot any of the Sierra's? Continued good luck, Diz

[mike ford]

wernerhelm,
IAW Diz's advice, you might need to switch to a faster powder than RL 19, maybe RL15 ( I used 4895 for 3000 fps).
Mike

[wernerhelm]

Greetings all.
I took the 5.6 on my deer hunt on November 3-5. I shot a 60 pound feral hog at 30 yards with the 60 grain cutting edge brass hollow points. The hog ran approximately 25 yards and fell dead. The bullet did not pass through it. I hit the hog behind the front leg in the heart lung area. Unfortunately i forgot to take any pictures.
I did not get another shooting opportunity. We were hunting an area on the north side of the LLano River in central Texas, and our hunting party did not have the success that we typically do. We believe that the flooding in the area that occurred in October affected the deer and their traveling patterns.
I am hoping to get to go on another trip at the end of the year.

[mike ford]

wernerhelm,
A sixty pound pig is better than I ( and the whole group) did, so be happy, you know what you will have for Christmas dinner. I'm surprised a solid copper bullet didn't exit.
Mike

[Diz]

wernerhelm, nice that you were able to blood your rifle. I don't want to throw you a curve but I think and this is my opinion only, that you are going the wrong way with this cartridge and especially that bullet. Solid copper or brass alloy bullets have a very high shot start pressure and if they slow when engraving it can set up erratic pressure waves that could become destructive under certain conditions. This is especially true at low loading densities needed to slow these down. Half full cases of slow powder is not a good combination in my opinion and I am trying to understand why you wish to go below 3000 fps or even 3200 when these speeds don't create the heat necessary for harmful erosion. Mike's suggestion of IMR-4895 is a good one if you must reduce the speed. Even some quicker powders might be useful. I would suggest trying 25-06 cases for forming since they are very close to were you need to be already. Anneal carefully, lube sparingly and go very slow. Stop when the bolt will close with light pressure. That's about all I can suggest at this point. Good luck, Diz