J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Suhl side by side 12 ga

[jjg112483]

I just received this rifle and I was trying to find some information on it. Anything you could tell me would be helpful, especially value.

[jjg112483]

More Pics

Some more.

[jjg112483]

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And some more

[jjg112483]

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And finally that's all. Thanks again to anyone who can offer any info

[mike ford]

jjg112483,
Your shotgun was proofed in Suhl during July of 1926. It was proofed for Nitro( smokeless) ammo. The number in the circle seems to have been overstamped, but I'm guessing it is intended to be a 12. A 12 in a circle means it has a "standard", for the time, 12 ga. chamber. Pre WW2, this would have been about 2 5/8", instead of the current standard 2 3/4". The 13/1 is the bore diameter, in gauge measurement ahead of the chamber. This works out to be about 18.26mm. The crown U is the mark for a "View" proof, which would have been performed after firing the definitive proof load. The View proof is really a detailed inspection, including required dimensions. The crown S means it was proofed for shot. The crown W( noted on left barrel, did not see on right) means that barrel is choked, but amount of constriction is not shown. The large crown and so called "Wildman" are not proofmarks, but are Sauer marks, instead; the Wildman being a trademark and the crown attests to the quality. The straight hand stock is less common than pistol grip stocks. I hope you find this helpful.
Mike

[jjg112483]

It was very helpful. Thank You for your response. I had found some basic info on the more common proof marks earlier today. You are correct it is a 12 gauge and may be right about it being overstamped. I was scratching my head on that one. What would the quality be based off what you see? Is there anywhere I could find some type of value or range for this? An older gentleman that I work with has asked me to assist him in selling some firearms and this was out of my league. I'm considering buying it from him but want it to be fair for both parties.

[mike ford]

jjg112483,
To establish a value, you might check the Blue Book Of Used Gun Prices, or a web site that sells these guns at a fixed price( Simpson Ltd. and others), auction sites without "Minimum" price or "Initial Bid" by owner. I have seen the same gun with minimum bid on a site for years, so that is not helpful. To help, I don't know the model number, but here we would consider it "field grade", it is and Anson and Deely type action with interrupting sears; and it has cocking indicators.
Mike

[Jim Cate]

It's a Model 8 as noted being a 12 gauge, proofed in July 1926 (which is probably the month this old Sauer was finished). A lot of the Model 8 guns were special ordered as I suspect this one was also....because of the English stock. Others had special high grade wood and/or engraving, etc. The 2 1/2 inch ammo is readily available if you start looking on the internet. Regards, Jim Cate

[jjg112483]

I think the guy said he was actually shooting 2 3/4 shells out of it. Im not sure if they fit or he forced them in. Thanks again for the info. It is greatly appreciated.

[mike ford]

jjg112483,
A 2 3/4" shell will fall right in and he wouldn't notice anything wrong. When it is fired, the shell unfolds into the forcing cone, which builds up additional pressure. There is always a lot of controversy over shooting long shells or rechambering to 2 3/4" or buying 2 5/8"( or 2 1/2") shells. Each way has people that swear by it, and people that swear at it. Everybody has to decide for themselves.
Mike

[Diz]

jjg112483,

Mike is correct about there being many opinions on the firing of long shells in short chambers but I can say from testing that there is an increase in pressure although it is not as much as most would like to think. However, that is only in my testing and with those guns and the interior dimensions of different guns would naturally have a different effect. As I say sometimes, your results may vary. I would say that I cannot recommend the practice because of variations in dimensions and strengths of different guns as an unknown factor and that very good short shells are readily available. I have also noted that the pattern is not as good as when the proper shell is fired and that is another reason for going with the proper ammo. Very high quality two and a half inch shells are available from RST and they are re-loadable as well. A very nice SxS and good luck with it.

Diz