Franz Drilling- Looking for any Info

[gartmanarms]

Hello, I am hoping to learn more about a old German Drilling I have in my possession. I am looking for any information what so ever about this firearm and the markings on it. Attached to the photos I took of the piece. I find the inlay-ed crown on the trigger guard to be real interesting and wanted to see what you all think.

I wholeheartedly appreciate any help I can get with this gun, it has been in the woman's family for years and we would like to learn as much as we can.

Thank you all again.

Jacob

[gartmanarms]

IMG_0993[1].jpg
IMG_0994[1].jpg
IMG_0995[1].jpg
IMG_0996[1].jpg
IMG_0997[1].jpg

[gartmanarms]

IMG_0998[1].jpg

Thanks again

[mike ford]

gartmanarms,
This nice drilling is a type commonly called Roux system( maybe not precisely correct, but commonly used description). It was subjected to a View Proof, which was a detailed inspection, performed after a Definitive Proof. The photos show it is very nicely engraved, with the animals nicely executed and looking natural. As nice as these photos are, it would be much more helpful to have readable photos of all the markings. Glare and orientation prevent reading important markings that would provide the information you are looking for. We will try again when you post additional photos.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Oh my, that is a nice drilling!!! Congrats! A picture of the drilling in its entirety as well as readable photo's of the proofs would be helpful.

[Axel E]

There were two generations of Dieters as gunmakers/gunshop owners in Munich. Lorenz Dieter took over the shop of Franz Dischler in 1873. About 1900 Franz Dieter (son?) took over. Addresses: Karlsplatz 14, later Herzog-Wilhelm-Str.11. The Dieters held the appointments Hofbüchsenmacher and Hoflieferant to some court. Franz Dieter was the founder and first president of the still existing VDB, Verband Deutscher Büchsenmacher = Association of German Gunmakers, Gun- and Ammunition Dealers. Franz Dieter died in 1928.
I can not identify the monogram on the triggerguard. The crown of unusual shape is no known to me rank crown, at least neither German nor Austrian, Hungarian, British, Russian or other west –central European monarchy. The letters below may be two Ls, back to back, but look unusual too.

[gartmanarms]

mike ford, sharps4590, Axel E,

Thank you all for the helpful information, I will take some more photo's of the drilling and post them asap. I just took those real quick, anything else you guys would find helpful to see besides clear proof-marks and an overall profile?

-Jacob

[mike ford]

gartmanarms,
It looks like there may be a mark, where the "doll's head" fits into the receiver. It may be helpful, if there is a mark there, so see a photo of it. This is a location that some makers marked the guns they built for " the trade".
Mike

[gartmanarms]

IMG_1086.JPG
IMG_1087.JPG
IMG_1088.JPG
IMG_1089.JPG
IMG_1090.JPG

[gartmanarms]

IMG_1091.JPG
IMG_1092.JPG
IMG_1093.JPG
IMG_1094.JPG
IMG_1095.JPG

[gartmanarms]

IMG_1096.JPG
IMG_1097.JPG
IMG_1098.JPG
IMG_1099.jpg

[gartmanarms]

Here is some more pics for you guys...hope it helps

Thanks again
,Jacob

[mike ford]

Jacob,
The mark inside the recess seems to be an S. It would be tempting to say it is for Sauer, but I think they would have used S&S instead. Maybe Axel knows. The drilling seems to be chambered for the unusual 32 ga shotshell( 32 in a circle). Below the eagle crown U( definitive proof), there is a number that seems to be 248. This would be the bore(not groove or bullet) diameter of the rifle barrel, in gauge measurement, which would be 6.75mm. It is proofed with 2.3 grams of GBP(Gewehr Blattchen Pulver) Rifle Flake Powder and a steel jacketed bullet(St.MG). Proofs like this means the gun was made between 1893 and 1911. My quandary is I don't know of a cartridge that fits these conditions. If, however, I misread 278 as 248(after magnifying it), a couple cartridges might fit(278 would be 6.5mm). Could you verify the number? Positive ID would really require a chamber cast, and "slugging" the bore.
Mike

[ScatterHobo]

On a side note not to distract from your post.
FWIW: Acetone and cigarettes do not blend well together. Also acetone is very harsh and can destroy the natural patina of the wood finish drastically and reduce value. . I personally prefer regular gun cleaning solvent like Hoppes or mineral spirits.
My apologies but, just couldn’t help myself by the sight of the picture of acetone and ashtray next to each other.