Austrian gunmaker J. Rosler, Salzburg???

[The Goose]

Okay, so here is what I know and what my question is. I acquired this rifle about a year ago. The seller represented that it was chambered for .43 Mauser and was made by a Johann Rosler who was supposedly the gunmaker for the Royal Austrian Court in the 1890's. I took all of that with a grain of salt. I thought the rifle was beautiful and fairly priced so I bought it. Right off I took a chamber cast. Definitely not .43 Mauser. Groove diameter is .446, but the case is s straight walled slightly tapered case. I have done extensive research on the cartridge and am pretty well convinced that it was a proprietary non-standard caliber. However, I was able to form brass from 45/90 by some resizing and thinning the rim thickness and diameter. I cast a 370 gr bullet over 75 grs of Goex 2f and it is a fabulous shooter. I now have a good supply of fire formed brass, but I could write a whole story on that process. I do have this beautiful single shot Austrian stalking rifle made by J Rosler of Salzburg. It is stamped on the top of the barrel. I have done a lot of online research and cannot find any Johann Rosler, but I do find a Julius Rosler who was an Austrian gunsmith in the correct period. I managed to find about a half dozen examples of his work with a similar barrel stamp. It appears that he made good quality shutzen and hunting rifles. I only have my cell phone for a camera and cannot get any good photos of the markings. However, my only real question is about J. Rosler. Does anyone have any more info about him? It would seem to me that if he was in fact a royal gunmaker there would be a little more info. I doubt that attribution. Regardless I love the rifle. It is in outstanding condition with a mint bore and Is so much fun to shoot.

[chapmen]

Julius Roessler, also Rössler and Rösler was born 1854 in Tafelfichte/Bohemia. Known untill 1933. Mastergunsmith since 1880 in Salzburg,
his shop was in the street "Lederergässchen" n.6/7, later "Dreifaltigkeitsgasse" 4, both in the city of Salzburg. There is no info about "Royal Gunmaker".
This is the only Rösler p.p. that is documented.
Here is an 1914 dated ad, if he was at his time "royal gunmaker" you shure would find it in the ad.

[The Goose]

Wow, thank you for the great information. That is what I was hoping for when I posted here.

[mike ford]

Goose,
We know the bullet diameter is .446, if you give us additional dimensions from the chamber cast, we might be able to find the cartridge your fine rifle is chambered for. If it took a 45-90 case to be long enough( 45-70 too short?), it should be something close to 11.15x60R, which is the metric designation for the 43 Mauser. As you found it is a different cartridge, the similar dimensions are likely the reason for the seller's confusion. There are many cartridges not covered in common American references, we might be able to find the correct one. A photo of one of your handloads in a fireformed case would also be helpful. BTW, your work in making ammo for an unknown caliber is one of the things that make this "game" fun. Good show.
Mike

[Peter K]

A very nice looking rifle, Goose. Yes, 43 Mauser brass can be made from 45/90 but it's bottle necked and the rim needs to be thickened rather than thinned. Are you able to neck size the fired brass in a 43 Mauser die? What are you doing with your fired brass to make neck tension for reloading?
It's possible to hone out a Lee 338 Factory crimp die to fit the neck size you need. I made one for my 43 Mauser and it works well.

[m-4]

Goose,
Have you checked your casting against the 11.15x65LK? From your description sounds a possible candidate.
m-4

[The Goose]

Case length: 2.4"
Rim diameter: .590
Rim thickness: .060
Case diameter at base: .500
Case diameter at mouth: .470

When I first got the rifle I was excited because I already loaded for a Mauser 71. When I attempted to chamber a round it would not go in. I took a chamber cast and found a straight walled slightly tapered case. I really did not want to chase down some exotic and likely expensive brass. I hoped I could make something work with materials on hand. Knowing that the groove diameter was .446 I thought the cartridge might be a straight walled variation of the 11.15 X 60R. I ran a case up into a 45/70 sizing die sans decapping pin. It chambered perfectly except that the action would not close because of the little "bump out" on the base of the rim. I ground the "bump out" off and although it chambered a primer could no longer seat deeply enough. My next attempt was to run a 45/70 case up into an 11.15 X 60R sizing die. This gave the case a very slight bottle neck, but it chambered up to the rim. I chucked the case into my Sherline mini lathe and began the slow process of turning down and thinning the rim until it chambered perfectly. Just a little at a time, try it and then thin a little more until I got it right. I made up a dozen to give it a test run. Loaded 60 grs of Goex 2f, a .030 wad, a grease cookie and another wad then seated a 370 gr soft lead bullet that I cast. As I suspected when I shot it the case expanded and fireformed to a straight walled case. I knew the case was too short, but once i had proven my theory it was worth investing in some 45/90 cases that are the correct length. I can shoot touching groups at 50 yards and once I have recovered from my recent cataract surgery we will see what she can do at 100 yards.

Oh, just a quick PS; when I reload I do not have to size the brass. I use the 11.15 X 60R seating die. Since it is a single shot I only need a little neck tension to hold the bullet. I use a .44 magnum seating die (sans decapping pin) and just very slightly "kiss" the case mouth rim against the bullet. Works great.

[mike ford]

M4,
The LK series has a base diameter of 11.90mm(.469"), so none of them would fit, the closest for length being the 11.15x60R LK Express.

Goose, I think the cartridge you are looking for is the 11.15x62R Mannlicher (aka 11.15x61.9R). This is a straight case Roth cartridge. The dimensions are not precisely the same as your chamber cast, but this is to be expected. A chamber cast reflects the chamber, and a cartridge must be a little smaller to insure chambering in different rifles. The base diameter of the 11.15 Mannlicher is shown as 12.50mm(.492") vs .500" from the cast, this .008" difference is actually closer than we often see with old cartridges. The bullet diameter is shown as 11.2mm(.441") vs the .446"(11.31mm) groove diameter, older cartridges almost always were loaded with bullets smaller than the barrel(to make room for residue- bullets "bumped up" anyway). There seems to be a little disconnect on case length( 2.4"[61mm] vs 62.05mm), but I rationalize this by saying it is very possible that the cast length didn't include the rim, since the cerrosafe "piles up" there and it is hard to get a true measurement. Also, the fact that you had to thin the rim, as well as reduce the diameter is consistent with what appears to be a typical rim found on this type cartridge. The dimensions I cited came from "Dixon", that unfortunately does not include any ballistic data or bullet weights. On the other hand. the bullet you are using looks very much like the one Dixon shows, possibly lighter or seated deeper. The 11.15x62R was shown as being from circa 1905 to 1914. If this is so, it might not be a blackpowder cartridge after all. It would be interesting to see a photo of the proof marks. I hope you find this helpful. It looks like you might agree with me that a lathe( and mill) is a requirement of life.
Mike

[The Goose]

It looks like you might agree with me that a lathe( and mill) is a requirement of life.
Mike

The acquisition of my lathe changed my life. What a marvelous tool. Especially for our hobby.

[algmule]

Hello

Should anyone be interested I have the following:

Julius Rößler passed early in the morning of May 3, 1935.The source gives that he would have become 82 years in 1935 but does not give the date. His address in 1935 was Dreifaltigkeitsgasse 17, Salzburg. He was given as "bürgelicher Büchsenmachermeister".

Kind regards
Peter