Oberndorf model S and model M, number producued?

[kammerherren]

I posted a couple questions on the NitroExpress forum the other day and I got some answers to one of my questions, but not the other.

I know that many of you are active on both these forums, but I’d like to ask the other question here as well.

Anyone knows how many were built of the Oberndorf model S and model M? If production volumes are unknown, anyone have an idea of witch one is the rarer? Based on what I have been reading I believe the model S is rarer. Comments?

[Axel E]

As I have answered on NitroExpress forum too:
If you go by Jon Speed's books, the A (English style) and M models came after the B and S styles. Going by interwar German catalogs, the model S was the standard offering in Germany, while the M was predominantly made for export, available on special order only, just like the A and "African model" types. So you see S types much more often than M types here in Germany, though all Mauser, Oberndorf, prewar commercial rifles are rare here. IMHO there were many more S Stutzen made originally than the M type export model. But then came 1945 and aftermaths. Note, Jon wrote:
"It is not always easy to locate a REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE of the Model S"
Survival rate is the cause here. While most Mausers, exported pre-WW2 to Britain, USA, Scandinavia and elsewhere survived the ravages of time quite unmolested, gun ownership in Germany was a crime, punishable by death, in Germany from 1945 -1950. All firearms had to be surrendred immediately to the Allies. Most guns were destroyed, some "liberated" and now found in the USA and elsewhere. Guns that remained in Germany were hidden away in the most unlikely places with often adverse storage conditions. I even know some guns that were buried in a grave, some inches above a coffin. When gun ownership became more or less legal five years later, such hidden guns were retrieved from hideouts. If not rusted and rotten beyond repair, they were repaired to "useable" by some means, many restocked or rebarreled with an ex-miltary barrel. Sometimes the scopes had survived under better storage conditions and could be put back on the rifles. Others were mounted again with any old scope available and makeshift claw mounts. The few rifles that survived the five post-war years in decent shape were now used for 60 years, often remounted with "modern" scopes and mounts. Remember, the true commercial Mausers were appreciated here just as usable rifles, until American books by Olson, Womack and Speed appeared. So most commercial Mausers you find now in Germany are either quite sorry examples with rust pitting and discolored stocks, refinished post-war, or reimports from other countries, often Sweden.
In all, Germany is likely the worst place to look for a decent pre-war Mauser rifle, especially a M or A. As customers in many other countries preferred the looks of the more expensive M type over the S, there may be the false impression that the M type is more frequent than the S one.

[Steve Whitley]

A very, very good explanation of it, Axel, and very well stated also. Thank you.
Steve

[kammerherren]

Finally the Model S arrived, and I felt like show it to you guys. It is in great condition and 100% original without any modifications as far as I can tell. (Perhaps the rifle was delivered with a front sight hood, if so, this is missing). All matching numbers, 76713. This is the first model S I have seen in Norway since I started collecting rifles like this one. The chambering is 6,5 P.P., as I have learned stands for 6,5x58 Portuguese Patrone or something like that. I can’t imagine this rifle has seen too much use, since it is in fantastic condition, just a few dints and dents in the wood. As far as I can tell from Jon Speed’s book, this has to be a pattern no 255 with single trigger, round barrel and tangent curve sight up to 1000 meters. The only detail that does not match is the chambering. 6,5 P.P. is not mentioned in the book on this model, only 6,5 mm K.

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[kammerherren]

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[Axel E]

The serial number 76713 dates the rifle to 1913, several years before the A, B, C, S and M model designations were introduced by Mauser. The M type carbine appeared later too, post-WW1, the earliest M serial numbers in the 80000 range. Obviously this carbine with the single trigger and unusual (in Germany) 6.5x58 P caliber was made for export, maybe to southern Africa where the Portuguese 6.5 mm cartridge was quite common. A German customer then would have ordered it with double set triggers , a chambering then popular in Germany and would have it mounted with a scope. Though Jon Speed had noted some A and B rifles in 6.5x58P only, everything was possible then on special order. As Jack O'Connor once put it: "If you set up as an expert on Mauser rifles, be prepared for some rude surprises."

[kammerherren]

I completely agree Axel. It is rather common with a lot of different manufacturer’s throughout Europe. Husqvarna in Sweden is perhaps the one with most custom variants out in the market that should not exist according to the different books. It is really not that strange; after all, the customer is always right, so he should get what he needs! This specific rifle was most likely sold directly to Norway. Not sure why this caliber was chosen, but I believe the rifle have been in the family of the former owner for a very long time.

[Mauser9x57]

What a beautiful rifle! I have a small Mauser Sporting Rifle collection but no Model S. The ones I have seen for sale are always out of my price range. I have only bought one rifle in the last several years because almost all of them are too expensive now. The Portuguese 6.5 is a hard to come by caliber. My Model M is in 6.5x57 which is much more common. Enjoy your rifle.