Chr. Friedr Triebel 5.6 Super

[mike ford]

Jeff,
If you read the above articles you may come across some discussion of "Secondary Explosion Effect", as there have been rumors of this cartridge being subject to it. It is believed that reduced loads of slower burning powders may be the cause. As I mentioned above, I loaded 70 grain bullets down to about 3000 fps to get acceptable groups from my rifle( the rimmed version). The load that came with the rifle was enough 4350 to give about 3260 fps. Having heard that reduced loads of slow powder could cause "blow ups", (and my mentor still owned the rifle at the time) I decided to use a medium burning powder in the reduced loads, to hopefully avoid the problem. I used "pull down" 4895, because I had a quantity of it on hand. I didn't blow up the rifle and was able to show the owner decent groups before he passed away. The medium burning powder may or may not have prevented a "secondary explosion"; I just can't know for sure. I just think you should be aware of this so you can make informed decisions when you load for your rifle. Recently, I have been able reach more than 3250 fps using harder bullets, bumped up to .228", with a different slow powder and data generated by Diz's very smart computer. As an interesting aside, I had a few rounds of original ammo and sacrificed one to determine actual velocity ( 77 gr bullet) as opposed to advertised velocity ( 3400 fps for rimmed vs 3700 for rimless version). The factory ammo did not meet the advertisement and was closer to the actual velocity I got with 80 gr bullets and Diz's data. Just a thought.
Mike

[Devo1959]

Hi Mike ,
Thanks for the heads up on that, I am planning on meeting up with Diz to go over some of his loading experience and show off our rifles and shotguns
since we are only a couple of hours from each other. Everyone on this site has been very generous with their knowledge and experience.
Thank you all,
Jeff

[Devo1959]

Kiwi
Am I correct in that you have 3 guns chambered for 5.6 x 61? If so wow you are committed to these. I do like the theoretical ballistics as long as I can use it for more then varmint.

Jeff

[algmule]

Hello

Jeff,
here’s an ad. Language is Estonian I believe. From 1924.
A1924.jpg
In the category unnecessary information is hereby included some other Triebel’s: Büchsenmachermeister Stephan Triebel, who in 1892 received something called “das allgemeine Ehrenzeichen”; Gewehrfabrikant Veit Friedrich Triebel, who, together with Gewehrfabrikant Peter August Schilling, set up shop in 1881 (might have been earlier) under the name Schilling & Triebel and they seem to have closed down shop in 1890; and also a Karl Triebel who seems to have been marketing wares in Estonia (1921-22) as well.

Kind regards
Peter

[Devo1959]

Peter
Thanks for the Chr. Triebel information. The Triebels were quite prolific gunsmiths/makers. I really enjoy this journey of learning about this rifle.
Be Strong
Jeff

[Devo1959]

Mike Ford,
I noticed you are from East Alabama. I hunted Boar on Fort Benning with a Ranger friend stationed there over the new year this year and
have enjoyed delicious pork meals since. As you know that is probably not to far from you. We hope to hunt Boar again in Sept if possible after his next deployment.
Jeff

[mike ford]

Jeff,
Great. I retired from the Corps of Engineers, West Ga. Area Office, and lived in Columbus 20 years. I still have my Doctors in Columbus and had an appointment with one on Tuesday. While there I went to Cusseta, through Ft. Benning, to visit a gunsmith friend. Where the Boar rooted in Kudzu patches on the side of US 280, in Ft Benning, was very evident. This was near facilities our office built for the Rangers, before I retired. You and your friend should have good luck.
Mike

[Devo1959]

Yes Sir
We got 4 over the New Years weekend with 4 of us. Looking forward to next one. He rents a house in Columbus, he has his first Platoon as a Ranger officer
and he graduated from USMA a few years ago. I was lucky enough to have introduced him to shooting and hunting as a young man. It is nice to see where he is at today and still his own thinker which I admire.
Jeff

[mike ford]

Jeff,
When you go again, post photos to make us jealous.
Mike

[Devo1959]

Hi Mike,
Here are a couple of pics including the one with no people which the pig was harvested yesterday. The others on our recent trip. I'll have to take the 5.6 once a get proper hunting rounds.
Jeff
https://ibb.co/hnxZBS
https://ibb.co/nFGBrS
https://ibb.co/hoGpd7
https://ibb.co/eTCZBS

[mike ford]

Jeff,
Great, I wish I could still move around in the woods like you "young lads". Those are about the funniest looking drillings I ever saw, maybe you could send some photos to Nancy Pelosi, so she can see people do hunt with ARs,SKSs, and AKs too.
Mike

[Devo1959]

Yeah man we were on a SOF base so it seemed appropriate to use those. I am 59 so not so young but brought the youngin's to carry the loads.
Jeff

[mike ford]

Jeff,
There are more than 10 years between 60 and 70; I speak from experience. I was joking about the rifles.
Mike

[Kiwi_bloke]

Hi guys
Notwithstanding that the printed info here says, CFT was "founded around 1800", here's a site for more Triebel family info.

http://triebel-shop.com/extra_info_p...19&language=en

It is the present Triebel shop and states; "1750 our forefather Christian Friedrich Triebel founded in Suhl his "manufactury of first-class custom and luxury rifles". Katja Triebel, BTW, is a leading light in the pro-dun movement in Germany and, in my transactions with her, very helpful and so well recommended.

I tend to work on the assumption that a 70-grain bullet can go up to 3,500 fps. Naturally a heavy bullet should be less. Because of the Secondary Explosion Effect risk, I only use printed data, I do not freelance. I also use exactly what they say, for instance the type of primer specified. I think the SEE came about when people used powders of the wrong burning rate and then loaded them down besides. This meant the powder did not fill the case and the primer could flash over the powder and start it burning both ends. I'd want to see the powder at least reach the shoulder of the round and 100% is even better. The accuracy I get is around 1 MOA at 100 yards. It is a good round in high winds because it is so quick. For that reason the Chamois of Europe was more or less what this cartridge was intended for, also because, being so flat shooting range estimation is less problematic.

If anyone is using the Rifle issue 13, January 1971 loading date, keep in mind that there is no IMR nor H in from of 4831 nor 4350. Apparently they are all Hodgdon powders according to Loaddata.com who have reproduced this information. I know one of those powders was only produced by Hodgdon at the time.

When I work up loads I am looking also for firstly, how stiff the bolt is to open but also how much (if any) ridge there is around the primer imprint. The first thing I want to know after cartridge 1 is, is a bullet now a sliding fit in the fired case? I record all these things for comparison, the load data and the field data as well as keeping the targets.

I make sure the rifle bore is fully clean of any copper before going to the range and also I probably wouldn't fire more than 10 rounds before another clean. I space shots 2 minutes apart, or as long as it takes on a hot day for the barrel to fully cool, (I may even put it in the shade). Failure to do this can mean a lot of barrel wear as this is an over-bore cartridge. Getting carried away can really reduce barrel life of any overbored magnum cartridge.

I've tried Norma, (Belgian made) Degol and Hornady bullets. All worked very well. The Speer bullets I had were very old and blew up and took out an Ohler screen. Speer said the number on the box predated the system they now use, so pretty old. I don't know if this means all Speer bullets would do this. It looks like both Speer and also Hornady (recently) have dropped this .227 bullet. So haunt the gunshows for some Hornady .227 soft-points. Degol bullets have a heavy jacket and are meant for 5,6x61 SEvH specifically.

I had some issues with my Frankonia scope, (made by Karl Kaps). It had less adjustment range that the Redfield the Frankonia rifle came with, which was apparently damaged in transit. It took several goes to get the right parts for the EAW mounts to get the scope on target. However all is well now. The Norma bullets settle under 1" MOA.

That CFT rifle looks mint. I might have 4 such rifles if I'd seen it first. It's not a bad idea to strip the gun from it's stock to get a picture of the proof marks, which might include the year of proof. But also to check that there are no wood creaks and also that the recoil lug still bears well against the stock lug mortise. Suggest you use a good gunsmith the first time so as not to mar any screw-slots as they may be tight or even rusted.

[Kiwi_bloke]

Another thought, a lot of older rifles have been damaged by years of improper cleaning and benefit from having the crown's chamfer (where it meets the bore), on the muzzle recut. If you look at this using 15-30x with a microscope, you may see grooves left by cleaning jags being pulled back too sharply. Re-cutting this can be a big help to get the best accuracy. Lately I have this done on a lathe to get it exactly square. After all, it is the last thing the bullet touches before leaving the gun and you don't want any powder-gas blow-by upsetting one side of the bullet.

It's a good idea to also get a bore guide, the MTM ones providing they are the right size, (i.e. the diameter is a good fit to the rod), are as good as any IMHO. This protects the leade in front of the chamber from abrasion caused by the cleaning rod. A nice clean stainless rod will also do much less damage, but make sure it is not one to flex in the middle and damage the lands in the mid-section. A good copper solvent is needed with these high intensity rounds. Boretech Eliminator is my favourite as the company tells me it can be left in overnight and not do any bore harm. One of the US smallbore Olympic gold-medallists swears by their Rimfire Blend for his competition rifle. Good enough for me!