Could this be an old German rifle?

[algmule]

Hello

Will_Paladin,
really sorry for highjacking your thread. I hope you don’t mind.

Let’s leave Belgium for a while and go Germanic (more specifically Austrian[?]). Raimey, you’ll recognize the following. Here are images of a bolt action 9 mm (8,53/4 mm) smoothbore with a rear and a front sight. Total length of the gun is 35.944 inches. Extractor on the bolt. Digits on the receiver are 2508-121 and I believe I remember the digits in the stock are 2508 but I’m too lazy to go and check. Owner before me used Fiocchi’s 9 mm shot cartridges. I apologize beforehand for the lousy quality of the images.
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Tomorrow, if I’m in the mood for it, I’ll go and measure the bore of my Belgian Warnant smoothbore. I may even snap a few photos and post them as a “Sorry for intruding on your thread Will_Paladin”-act.

Kind regards
Peter

[Axel E]

That Liege proofmark, ELG + star in oval without a crown on top was in use until 1893. The letter, here an Y?, with star on top was the personal mark of a proofmaster.
The photo with the .32 ACP cartridge in the chamber confirms my suspicion: The rifle is chambered for either one of the centerfires .320 long or short "Revolver", about the same as the .32 Colt short or long, or one of the rimfire .32 cartridges. All these cartridges had outside lubed bullets and cases the same diameter as the bullets, similar to today's .22 lr. So their cases were slimmer, .318" cases than the .337" .32 ACP, .
So the rifle may well have been one of the 1890s Montgomery Ward imports.
A replacement, reproduction buttplate or a very similar one may be available from member Larry Schuknecht, http://www.dutchmanwoodworks.com/

[mike ford]

Axel,
Check the photo of the breechblock and see if you agree or disagree with my assessment that the rifle is rimfire.
Mike

[Will_Paladin]

Mike, please don't apologize for disagreeing. I'm just trying to learn here from the experts and happy for any info.
Yes, I couldn't keep the decimal point in the right place...8.10mm. Does that mean it might be an 8mm caliber of some type?

[Will_Paladin]

Mike & Axel, I just now took a real close look at the alignment of the firing pin with center of the bore. I had not done this before.
Mike is correct that it is off-center to the left looking down the barrel.
I think it must be, as Mike said, a rimfire. Now if I can just figure out what size?

[mike ford]

Will_Paladin,
8mm is about .315". I agree with Axel that it is likely one of the 32s, and now we agree it is rimfire. The old 32s had outside lubricated bullets that were about the same diameter as the case, whereas modern cartridges usually have inside lubricated( or jacketed) bullets and the diameter of the cases are larger. This is likely why the 32 ACP case wouldn't enter the chamber. Without any proof, I suspect it is chambered for 32 long and short rimfire. Several years ago a Brazilian company (CBC, I think) made a "run" of these cartridges, but I think they are about all gone now.
Mike

[Axel E]

Dixie Gun works offers brass cases for the .32 rimfires.
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/...+Round+Ball%29
These use 6mm Flobert/.22 blanks (also available from Dixie) as a primer. Loaded with black powder and lead, they at least allow some fun shooting. They have to be loaded carefully into the gun so the firingpin hits the rim of the blank. I use such cases in a Belgian copy of the Smith & Wesson #3 in .44 Henry rimfire made for the Ottoman empire.

[Diz]

Will_Paladin,

I believe that Fiocchi still makes 9 mm rim fire ammo but it is in a 1-1/4" case loaded with 1/4 oz of #8 shot. It would be a rather round about way but you could either shoot them as is if they would fit or unload them and trim as needed, then reload with BP and lead. I would be very careful trimming brass with live rim fire priming but it can be done. Also, you can re-prime fired rim fire cases by cutting the tips off of "strike anywhere" wooden matches and mix them with acetone to make a slurry. You have to clean all the old priming compound out from inside the rim and then pack it with the homemade compound and let it dry overnight. There is an outfit that makes a two part priming compound as a kit just for this purpose. I did this long ago but used a high speed motor to spin the case in the upright position and then dropped a little bead of priming mix into the case. Centrifugal force spun the mix under the rim. I think the factory does it this way.

Use your own discretion.

Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

Diz, as we found out before, the rifle is in .32 rimfire. A source of 9mm rimfires is about as usefull for it as a box of .45 ACP ammo is for a 9mm Luger pistol.

[Diz]

Axel, as always you are quite correct but the reloading of rim fire cases may still have a tiny bit of value. Thanks, Diz