Kreighoff Drillling Questions

[ohiochuck]

Hi!
Recently found a Kreighoff drilling with game scene engraving. It is a 16X16 X ??
A factory S&B 9.3 X 72 R fits the chamber and the bullet fits the front of the bore up to the large band on the bullet just in front of the end of the case.
The barrel is marked 8.7 mm and I believe the date of make/proof is 322
This drilling fits me with my dimensions at the comb & heel
Weight 7lbs with 24.25 inch barrels , claw mounts and rings with a scope. Nicely figured wood stock.
Negatives small dent in the right barrel; top lever does not return to center.
The rear of the barrel has gold rings around the barrel, there is very nice engraving on the action. The cartridge trap is engraved and holds 4 cartridges. The bore is 0.366 inches. The chamber is for a straight wall case
The action appears to have two sets of numbers (serial numbers 28829 60390)?
The barrel has 60390.
The barrel is stamped 8.7 MM. Has this drilling been re-barreled?
Is a chamber cast the best way to be certain it is chambered for the 9.3X72R?
Thanks!
Jim
kreig drill 14.jpgKreig drilling 1.jpgkreig drilling 2.jpgkreigh drilling 14.jpgkreigh drilling 13.jpg

[ohiochuck]

kreigh drillign 10.jpgAdditional Photos of the Kreighoff Drilling

[Axel E]

"8.7 mm" as marked by rhe Suhl proofhouse from 1912 to 1939 is neither the groove nor the bullet diameter nor part of the cartridge designation. Instead, it is the bore or land diameter, without the depth of the rifling grooves. It was measured at the proofhouse using cylindrical plugs in .1 mm increments. The largest size, here 8.7 mm, that would pass the barrel was marked. So all 9.3x72R barrels are marked either 8.7 or 8.8 mm. This old habit leads to a lot of confusion now.

[sharps4590]

Oooo....nice drilling, side clips, scope, rings...what more could a fella ask for?!?! A chamber cast is infallible and something I believe should be done on any old rifle. Plug the bore a couple inches into the rifling and you'll get the bore and groove diameter at that point as well.

[ellenbr]

I'd hazard a guess it passed proof @ the Suhl proof facility between 1912 & late 1923. Closely resembles the HK Tugend but I don't see the Schwertanker Fabrik Marke in the images. Also there should be an associated bullet weight & type. Is the name Krieghoff atop the top rib? On the underside of the left tube I see 2 stamps of an jagged encircled K and below that might be an encircled HK stamp. There are a few more characters closer to the flats but I can't make them out.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Diz]

ohiochuck, it is a nice drilling and should make a fine shooter. The barrel dent can be raised by a competent smith with the proper tools to where it will be practically invisible and leave no damage to the tube. As far as the lever position goes, is it to the left or right as you look from the top? Often the lever will be slightly to the right on very tight, lightly used guns. This allows for wear and break-in to bring the lever center. Chamber cast is the best indicator. Good luck with it. Diz

[mike ford]

Jim,
As Axel mentioned, 8.7 or 8.8 would usually be marked for 9.3x72R drillings, during this time period. However the same marks would be used for other similar cartridges, such as 9.3x70R and others. You had mentioned in earlier PM that the bullet of a factory 9.3x72R cartridge was tight in the chamber, and the cartridge wouldn't "fall out". Also, you reported slugging the barrel showed a groove diameter of .366". With this groove diameter, a factory cartridge shouldn't be tight in the chamber, unless it is some other chamber. You should follow Sharps 4590's advice and make a chamber cast. You mentioned that it was proofed Mar. 1922(322), but I didn't see this date. Suhl may not have dated it at this time(1922), but it should have had the case length and bullet noted, as opined by Raimey. Other guns I have seen w/o case length, etc. but with bore (not groove or bullet) diameter in mm were from earlier time when they were changing from "gauge" to mm. I think, then, the gun may be from 1911-12, instead of 1922. You also mentioned that there was something in the cartridge trap, excluding 9.3x72R cartridges from 2 of the spaces. Did you ever remove the obstructions, and if so was there any writing on them? I think it would be helpful if you posted clear photos of all other markings. Of course, others might have other opinions.
Mike

[ohiochuck]

Additional photos
kreighoff drill 20.jpgkreighoff drill 23.jpgkreighoff drill 24.jpgkreigh drillign 15.jpgkreigh drillign 10.jpg

[ellenbr]

Interesting medallion. Schaftkopiere Verbtoten or stock copies forbidden. I could be mistaken but the September 1901 issued patent is noted as:

Verfahren und Vorrichtung zur Bestimmung der Schaftform und -lang von Gewehren, for Ludwig Krieghoff.

I'm not fully convinced it is a total Krieghoff example, but it easily could be. Also, I'd guess it was made around WWI.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

The protection for DRP Nr. 123902 had to be centred around Ludwig Krieghoff's phrase/principle:

“Die Läufe schießen, aber der Schaft trifft!”.

So with that I wonder if the stock was fitted, etc. or if the blitz action drilling was retailed by Krieghoff?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Diz]

ohiochuck, from the second set of photo's the lever is indeed far over to the right and that indicates to me that the action is not closing all the way. There appears to be some old grease or something in the receiver and this could be holding it up just enough to bind up the bites. I was also wondering if there is a cross bolt or some other type of third fastener in the barrel extension? There could also be an accumulation of crud under the ejectors that could cause this as well. I would give this gun a very thorough cleaning and then check the lever position. If it were mine I would not shoot it until I had this issue resolved as the engagement of the bites may not be enough to hold the gun closed without some damage to the bite and lugs. This is just my opinion and others may come in on this. Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Jim,
To clean the grease from the gun is good advice for several reasons. From the "rub" marks, left of the lever in the photo, it seems the lever is usually farther left than in the photo. I find that I must "snap" my drillings closed or gently push the lever left, if I want it to be silent, loading on the deer stand. This doesn't create a concern for me.
Mike

[Diz]

Jim, this is why I appreciate this forum. Mike is right that if you can [U]gently[U] push the lever over all will be well. I did notice but failed to mention that the lever seemed to be closer to center at sometime in the past. That means it should again and a good cleaning is the easiest thing to try and may do the trick. There is sometimes a screw under the lever that can work loose and will bind things but I don't see one in your photo. It usually can only be accessed when the lever is pushed all the way to the right. Thanks, Diz

[ohiochuck]

Chamber cast was made today.
2.85" from rim to "front chamber mark?"
3.21" rim to rifling
bore diameter 0.367"
0.43" diameter in front of rim
0.39" diameter at the front of the chamber
Thanks!
Jim

[mike ford]

Jim,
Your dimensions, pretty much validate the assessment that your rifle is a 9.3x72R. The chamber length is a little short, but is ok if you add rim thickness. If by "bore" diameter, you measured groove diameter, the .0367" is a little larger than most commonly seen, but diameters of 9.3x72R barrels vary widely, and yours is within the range seen. The diameter of the chamber, ahead of the rim, is one of the most important dimensions to consider( along with length), and 0.43" is about right to chamber a 0.427" head diameter cartridge. With these dimensions, I don't see any problems with using 9.3x72R properly loaded ammo.
Mike