.318

[yamoon]

Hello
For years my deer hunting rifle has been a Brno Mauser , model 22 made in 1948, full stock, DST. I have wanted the real thing, so for my birthday next week, my wife got me a J Schiller 98 sporting rifle, I intend to disassemble and look for proof marks. Worst luck, it is a .318 bore. I have been unable to find any factory ammo, so I need to reload. Can I use standard 8x57 dies with a correct .318 expander ball? I hate to to buy a set of RCBS for $151. 175gr .318 bullets are available from Buffalo Arms. Should I use reloading information for the .323 S Mauser. I will post some photos later. It has only open sights, I don’t want to drill & tap for scope mounts, I have seen photos of a peep sight mounted on the end of the striker, is this a clamp on or does it require alterations? Where can I get one?
Thanks Mike

[sharps4590]

I recently bought an 8 X 57 and it too has a .318 groove. What I did was purchase a regular set of 8 X 57 dies and removed the de-capping pin and along with that came the expander button. I de-prime with a Lee Universal de-priming die then size the cases. I shoot mostly cast bullets and bell the case mouths with the Lee belling die. I don't have a .319 or .320 bullet sizing die but do have a .321. The sized bullet slips into the mouth of a fired case so it works fine. It certainly shoots well enough and pressures appear mild. My way adds one step in the process but I'm not in a hurry nor am I loading many hundreds of rounds.

I can't imagine it would work any different with the correct sized Hawk bullets and saves the expense of sort of custom dies. I've never tried to load jacketed and it may be you would have to bell the case mouth with flat based bullets. Boat tails should go right in.

I used starting loads from Lyman's cast bullet book for the 8 X 57S with no difficulties. I can't imagine there would be any difference in using starting data for jacketed bullets. The only difference, if it is a '98 action, is .005 bullet diameter and if the bullets are the correct size I don't see how that tiny difference can amount to much, if anything. As a disclaimer, the above is my experience, you're on your own hook.

I can't answer your question about the striker mounted aperture sight. The rifle I bought had a Lyman already mounted on the receiver. Other than that and the front sight changed to a taller one so the Lyman would work the rifle is all original and came with the original front sight.

[rtenenbown]

8x57JR

Selier & Bellot 8x57JR ammunition is readily available.
An internet search or email to S&B should turn up dealers.
I find it to be reliable and accurate.
196 grain soft point though probably designed for heavier game works well on Whitetail deer.

I recently bought an 8 X 57 and it too has a .318 groove. What I did was purchase a regular set of 8 X 57 dies and removed the de-capping pin and along with that came the expander button. I de-prime with a Lee Universal de-priming die then size the cases. I shoot mostly cast bullets and bell the case mouths with the Lee belling die. I don't have a .319 or .320 bullet sizing die but do have a .321. The sized bullet slips into the mouth of a fired case so it works fine. It certainly shoots well enough and pressures appear mild. My way adds one step in the process but I'm not in a hurry nor am I loading many hundreds of rounds.

I can't imagine it would work any different with the correct sized Hawk bullets and saves the expense of sort of custom dies. I've never tried to load jacketed and it may be you would have to bell the case mouth with flat based bullets. Boat tails should go right in.

I used starting loads from Lyman's cast bullet book for the 8 X 57S with no difficulties. I can't imagine there would be any difference in using starting data for jacketed bullets. The only difference, if it is a '98 action, is .005 bullet diameter and if the bullets are the correct size I don't see how that tiny difference can amount to much, if anything. As a disclaimer, the above is my experience, you're on your own hook.

I can't answer your question about the striker mounted aperture sight. The rifle I bought had a Lyman already mounted on the receiver. Other than that and the front sight changed to a taller one so the Lyman would work the rifle is all original and came with the original front sight.

[Fred]

Prechtl sells a cocking piece peep sight. The one I have is mounted with a dovetail. Not so bad, I think for a Swedish Mauser but more work on a 98. http://www.prechtl-waffen.de/waffenteile-cat298.html Look under SCHLAGBOLZENDIOPTER. Waffen-Stoetzer in Benshausen used to make the kind that replaced the usual bolt release lever on Mausers. http://www.waffen-stoetzer.de

[mike ford]

Yamoon,
Mike,
Like Sharps 4590, I use my normal 8mm Mauser dies to load several different 8mm cartridges with complete satisfaction. Also like him, for some, I deprime by hand. I bell the cases with .32 pistol die, but different dies can be used. You can safely use commercial Remington or Winchester ammo, as they are loaded to be safe in older rifles. A great many of these 8x57 I rifles can safely use larger than .318 bullets, mostly .321 32 Winch. Special bullets. As mentioned above, if a larger bullet will fit into a fired case, you can use it in that rifle. Buffalo Arms has both .318 and .321" bullets in 150, 170, and 175 grain weights., Huntington Die Specialties has 150, 175, and 200 gr .318" Custom jacketed bullets. They also have the new 165 gr. .321" Flex Tip bullets for 32 Win. Special cartridges. If none of these are satisfactory, you can size .323" bullets to about any size you need. Just don't try to size solid copper, Partition or A Frame bullets.
At one time, Parker Hale sold a cocking piece sight and I have one that came complete with a cocking piece. Before you spend a lot of time and money finding one, understand it will greatly slow down the striker time. Also, it may or may not return to the same position each time. The old Lyman #35 fit onto the bolt release, but if you can find one, it will cost you $400-500.
Mike

[Frank Kernan]

Yasmoon,
I have a M98 built on a military action with an Octagon to round barrel with integral rib. It was proofed in 1918. I posted pictures over a year ago and got some great information. I’ve since finished stocking it and just finished working up loads. I use Hawk 220 grain bullets; it was proofed for 14.6 gr bullets so they are close. I ordered new Norma brass for the standard 8x57. This brass has the neck already annealed and is a tight fit with the Hawk .318 bullets. I use a Lee universal deprimer and don’t resize. I use a Lee bullet seating die for the standard 8x57 to get the overall length. If you do have to I would recommend just a neck sizer. I too use the Lee Factory Crimp die and it gets the job done very well. Hawk also makes a 200 gr bullet. I have a list of DWM loads for the 8x57 I’ll post if you like. The powders listed are obsolete I think but the MV and weights given should give you an idea of the expected performance. I tried to duplicate the performance I thought it was originally set up for.8x57mmI Tgt 9-1-17 001.jpg
Frank

[Frank Kernan]

Here's the rifle (sorry the pictures are so big, I'm not good at posting things). In the target I pulled the lower shot.001.jpg
Frank

[yamoon]

Thanks everyone for the replys. Frank nice rifle, I notice the loading information on the target.
Mike

[Frank Kernan]

Thanks Mike. On the loads I had tried 50 gr of IMR 4350 and got the expected MV but the bolt handle felt stiff so I backed down to 46 grains and it worked out well. I pulled the lowest shot. Here is the page with 8x57mmI load data. If anyone could give information on the powders listed it would be appreciated.
Frank
DWM Mauser Cartridges #1.jpg

[Axel E]

Sorry, but these old German flake powders, Rottweil #2, #5, Walsrode 1920 and Troisdorf 1910, are all out of print since WW2 and aftermath. There are no exact modern, available equivalents. So forget these old DWM loads and use up to date load data like those published by DEVA, Norma, Vihtavuori and RWS. Though the old, pre-war loads were still listed by DWM and RWS until the 1960s, their actual cartridges were loaded with other, imported powders, mostly Bofors, to the old balistics.

[yamoon]

With deer season ending today, I had time to disassemble the Mauser & investigate the markings. The rifle weighs 6 lb 12 oz, has a slim part oct. barrel with a milled rib & a 2 leaf sight. The barrel is marked J. Schilling, Bad Wildungen. It is marked Krupp barrel steel in German, 8m/m. It has the standard proof marks includeing Nitro proof crown over N mark. 7.8mm 57, the number 633. It has an oval with EMA in it, is this a barrel makers mark? There is a small circle with GS in it?
I believe this Mauser action started life as a standard military one as the DST is not part of the lower tang, but is installed in a square cut out. Any information about J Schilling and the other barrel marks would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike

[Diz]

I took the liberty of running the load listed on the target through my computer program and this is what came out:

Piezo CIP maximum = 46,412 psi

Load = 46.0 grains IMR-4350
Bullet = Hawk 220 grain RN @ .323" diameter

Pmax = 37,804 psi
Vel = 2,145 fps
Fill = 88.1%
Burn = 92.3%
Eff = 27.2%

I did not correct the bullet diameter down to .318" so these predictions are for a full sized .323" Hawk bullet. Pressure looks good and velocity is close to actual. Very nice rifle and accurate as well.

Thanks, Diz

[Frank Kernan]

Thanks very much for the numbers Diz. I was hoping to get about what one of the factory loads was. I started a little higher and found occasionally the bolt was a little sticky so I backed off .4 gr and that went away but the velocity was higher than what I was looking for so I came down to the 46.0 grains and the accuracy came down to what you see. I was hoping the pressure was around the factory loads but had no way to figure it out. One final thing, this was done on a very, very tight budget. The stock was a basket case and I found the one in the picture at Numrich Arms for $175 as you see it. I don't have the skill to make one from scratch so I jumped on it and it worked out well.
Frank

[Diz]

Frank, I'd say the whole project worked out well. That stock doesn't look bad at all and looks to have some nice figure in it, especially in the butt. Money well spent for that piece of wood. I always think there is a bit more accuracy left in any load but you are doing very well as the target shows. I don't know if I would mess with success too much. Best of luck with it and thanks for sharing. Diz

[mike ford]

The 57mm case seems to do well loaded with medium burning powders in around 46 grain loads. I have noticed this with different 8mms and 9x57/9.3x57s. Admittedly, I settled on slower powders in 7x57R and 6.5x57R( even in 6.5, 46.5 gr of the slower 4831 did well). This is with my "old school" medium burning powders, all the "young lads" have a lot more new powders to try and I don't consider that a bad thing.
Mike