So just what do we have here?

[Nutmeg]

My brother in law inherited this and I come looking for knowledge on what it is and relative value. What I think I know is it is built from a military Mauser 98. Due to the denting at the front of the receiver and some light stamps on the bolt root under the bluing, it appears to be built from a previous rifle. From the under barrel stamps it looks like a 9.3x62 need help with the rest of the stampings. It was stored poorly so it has a speckling of light rust. Scope has an elevation wheel that appears to be marked for yardage. Scope is a 3 post and has a chip in one of the internal lenses. Very little marking on the bolt face and rifling is good. So what can you all tell me about it other than it’s a terrible piece but to help a guy out you would be willing to take it off his hands. Seriously thank you in advance, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

[Nutmeg]

A few more

[mike ford]

Nutmeg,
I think your brother-in-laws rifle was rebored/chambered to 9.3x62 from 8mm x( likely 57, but maybe 60),and proofed in Suhl in July of 1944. This idea works if the original barrel was proofed in Zella-Mehlis and the 781 stamp is the ledger number, whereas the 744 stamp is the date ( Suhl didn't mark the ledger numbers at this time). I can make out a 7.8 in the Zella-Mehlis proof ( bore diameter for 8mm), but case length and date seems to have been obscured during the reproof. The stock is "nothing to write home about", but is likely useable. If he wants to, your brother-in-law could have it restocked. As to value, it would have no special collector or historical value, but is a "user" in a very good caliber. Of course, since it was inherited, the sentimental value could outweigh other considerations. I could be wrong about my assessment and if so, someone else may weigh in.
Mike

[Nutmeg]

Thank you Mike, Trying to learn as much about this rifle that must have a bit of history. Yes the stock appears to be the reworked military stock. Understand that it appears to have been rebored/rechambered and reproofed at Suhl 7/44. Any idea what the 562 refers too? Also curious about the marking on the ring. The receiver ring measured 1.310 so I believe it is a small ring what is not straight sided. Is this a clue to the origins of the original? And as a small ring do we see any issue with the 9.3x62 chambering with factory level ammunition or is this a piece of history to be admired for what it is?. The rebore makes me wonder about the owner whom commissioned this during a world war and about how the rifle got to the point it needed a rebore. Again Thank you for input.

[Axel E]

I agree with Mike on all points. The receiver is certainly a large ring receiver. There are no "stepped" small ring receivers. when the large ring Gewehr 98 receiver was used for building the rifle after WW1, the deep military markings on receiver ring were ground off. Doing so removed about .05" from the ring surface, reducing diameter .1". On the other hand the bolt is from a WW1 98A carbine, evidenced by the flat, checkered underside of the knob. This bolt may have been used when the rifle was put together in the 1020s or replaced when the rifle was rebored..
The barrel was made by the Suhl barrelmaker Louis Kelber, "Z" mark. I take 562 as a "serial number", applied for identification in 1944. The 1940 proof law required serial numbers for the first time. So numbers were applied willy-nilly to previously unnumbered guns on reproof afterwards.
As the rifle was duly reproofed after rebore to 9,3x62, eagle/N = smokeless proof and eagle/I (looks like a J) = Instandsetzung = repair on both barrel, bolt and receiver, I deem it safe for use with all CIP factory level loads. It was proofed as it is. That 4x Gerard scope, if clean, is optically at least on par with 1960s American 4x scopes.
O.Sch. is the signature of the gunsmith who made and fitted the scope mounts, maybe the shop of Oswald Scherell, Berlin?

[ellenbr]

Seems that it began life in Z-M in 1926 coupled w/ the 4000 ATM tests.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

Nutmeg,
The 562 appears where we expect to find the serial number of the rifle. This number would normally match the serial number on the action. The heavy damage on the receiver ring is where we would see the serial number, if it was not damaged. The rifle was built post WW1, using an ex-military action, heavily cleaned of the original markings. The grinding to remove the markings would have reduced the diameter of the receiver ring somewhat. We commonly see the small ring Kar 98 made into sporting rifles, post WW1, but this action doesn't have the "step", as does a large ring. A VZ 33 or G33-40 small ring would have a similar step, but these are from a later era, so they can be disregarded. The need for reboring could have been caused by failure to clean it after using corrosive ammo, or the owner may have just wanted a 9.3x62 instead of 8mm. The St.M.G. marking on the ring means it was proofed for a steel jacketed bullet (Stahlmantelgeschoss), The Eagles(Reichsadlers) are proof marks complying with the 1939 proof law. The issue , if there is one, with 9.3x62 would be more with cutting a dovetail in the receiver ring for a scope mount, and grinding the original markings off. The two cartridges have similar head diameters and generate similar pressure. The proof firing with 9.3 proof ammo was successful, so it wouldn't be a concern for me. There is no way, at this late date, to know which specific action was used in the original conversion. My guess goes to one of the military large ring mausers, with the ring heavily ground to remove markings and maybe rust pits ( this sometimes results in a ring being ground "egg shaped", thinner on the sides than the top).
Mike
It seems that both Axel and Raimey were replying at the same time as I was. All the replies seem to pretty much agree.
Mike

[Nutmeg]

I just wanted to thank all of you for sharing your knowledge with me. It is very much appreciated.

[Nutmeg]

So after all your input and a few nights with Google here is my theory on this piece; I think the majority of parts, stock, floor plate, bolt came from a Kar 98. The stock had the sling slot filled in and the front was reduced to the depth of the finger grooves. No sign of a take-down washer and the butt plate led me to that. Now the receiver is interesting as it appears to be a large ring. My thought is it was used to have the mass to allow for the dovetail of the scope base and was ground down to fit the small ring stock. Why there is so much damage at the front of the ring I can only speculate that the barrel was very tight or removed after grinding and some soft inner medal was exposed. I took the bolt down and the only mark was a 3 on the firing pin which had a high polish on it. The bolt shroud, cocking piece and safety show no sign of every being marked and are all very clean. Suspect new parts may have been used in the build.
It is starting to grow on me and my brother in law has little interest so while we do not have much trouble with Rhino’s rooting up the garden in New England you never know and a 9.3x62 would be better than anything else I own for that.
So as it has value only as a shooter looking for some advice on cleaning it up. The finish on the stock is checkering suggestions on best path to take to address that?
Also the Gerard Scope has a chip in one of the lenses. Since it is a 26mm (1.058) tube soldered into the ring mounts I see this as a difficult fix. Looked on line and fitting new rings for a modern scope to the existing bases is a bit cost prohibitive on a shooter. ($ 800 New England Custom Gun) Next option is rebuild the scope and replace the lens as that appears doable. Scary thing there is sending it away as if it gets lost in shipping/business failure. Has anyone done this and suggest a location and a guesstamate on costs? Any other options anyone can suggest?

[mike ford]

Nutmeg,
The 9.3x62, works very well for Whitetail, as well as Rhino. I took my last years buck with one.
Mike

[Nutmeg]

Mike, What did you use for a load? I hand load so we can make up anything I can get components for. Seems like the Speer 270 and the Hornady 286 are the popular choices, think I would like to be a little lighter like 250.

[mike ford]

Nutmeg,
I just used old Norma RN 286 gr bullets I had on hand, and enough Military "pull down" 4895 to match factory velocity. I put these up in some RWS cases I also had, but had a quantity of 30-06 Match cases, fireformed , trimmed, and annealed to 9.3x62. The 06 cases work fine also. Magnum primers are not required at all. Several other medium burning powders will also work fine, not every one uses the "pull down" powder.
Mike