ASSRA Journal

[yamoon]

There is an article in the latest ASSRA Journal about a stalking rifle & the 8.15x46 cartridge. My first exposure 35 years ago to the habit forming German falling blocks was a pristine Stalking rifle in 8.15x46r, still have it along with 2 more & 8 schuetzens. Could have saved myself a lot of money if I hadn't seen that first one.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Mike, who wrote that article?

[yamoon]

The name on the article is, Vic Schaefferkoetter
Mike

[sharps4590]

Thank you sir.

[Diz]

Hmmmmm. funny thing about that, I seem to recognize that name. Wonder who it could be?

Diz

[Axel E]

Pirschbüchsen = stalking rifles in 8.15x46R? Just wrote some lines on the subject to Dick Hummel for publication in a future "Waidmannsheil", as he asked. The 8.15x46R was a target cartridge, period! Using factory swaged or cast lead bullets and pre-packed powder charges it was easy to reload and cheaper to shoot than any other centerfire. Though in a pinch it could be used for shooting a roebuck at most with the Tesco type 151 gr copper jacket bullet at 1920 fps, noone would choose it for hunting in the first place. Instead, "stalking rifles" chambered for it were specialized target rifles, called "Keilerbüchsen" = (running) boar rifles. The shooting match rules of the German hunter's associations prescribed the use of centerfire rifles, but forbade the use of full – blown Schützen target rifles. Several features, dear to Schützen game aficionados, were and are outlawed, like sophisticated peep sights, pronged buttplates, exaggerated buttstocks and heavy overall weight. On the other hand, scopes up to 8x were regarded as hunting sights and allowed. A complete match required firing at 4 targets @ 5 shots each = 20 shots, see Waidmannsheil! #60. Successful match competition needs a lot of training too. Many local rifle ranges then did not allow the use of full power, jacketed bullet rifle loads, but the lead bullet 8.15 target loads were ok. So the "Keilerbüchse" in 8.15x46R was a specialized target rifle for hunter's match and training shooting, shaped like a stalking rifle to conform to the rules. Today these Keilerbüchsen in 8.15x46R are replaced by also specialized bolt action single shots in .22 Hornet.

[yamoon]

Axel
Am I understanding correctly that falling block Keilerbüchsen is no longer used in matches? Some how a bolt action just does' have the same appeal for me.
Mike

[mike ford]

Axel,
What about the 8.15x46R Drillings, were they intended as "Keilerbuechsen" also. Although he also had a 7x65R drilling, a friend of mine in Kottenheim almost always used his hammer drilling in 8.15x46R when we hunted. He was deadly with it, shooting Reh in the neck, at the base of the skull, almost always.
Mike

[Axel E]

What about the 8.15x46R Drillings, Mike

That's the first and only 8.15x46R drilling I ever heard about! Maybe a special order item by someone with special ideas? Or someone who shot some roebucks with his Keilerbüchse, deemed the cartridge sufficient for his use, wanted shot barrels too but wanted to avoid stocking up with different rifle cartridges?
Out of my own experience I suspect another possibility: Have you ever read the proofmarks of that hammer drilling? Or looked closely at a chamber cast or a fired case?
When I bought my Z-M 1912 made falling block rifle some years ago, it was offered as an 8.15x46R. The previous owner, not a handloader, had it used for years with modern jacketed bullet RWS factory loads, available til the 1990s. A glance at the proofmarks showed an 57 mm case length! The rifle is a stalking rifle in 8x57R 360, a common chambering in hammer drillings, but obsolete since the 1950s. The cartidge was unknown to the previous owner. This cartridge has about the same base and rim. An 8.15x46R cartridge easily slips into a 8x57R 360 chamber. Though the case is much too short, the Tesco type bullet will center it sufficiently in the neck area of the long chamber. The empty case will come out of that chamber fireformed to a straight taper. The overexpanded case mouth, by about .6 mm, will go unnoticed by an uncritical observer who does not reload the cases anyway. Is it possible your friend in the 1970s too simply used the known and still availble 8.15x46R load in his drilling instead of the unknown and unavailable 8x57R 360?

[Axel E]

Axel
Am I understanding correctly that falling block Keilerbüchsen is no longer used in matches? Some how a bolt action just does' have the same appeal for me.
Mike

Mike, you are understanding correctly! Match shooting hunters are usually not interested in "appeal" or "style", but in hitting the x-ring. WW2 changed a lot of things here: Most Keilerbüchsen were destroyed or "liberated" to the USA in 1945. The Zella –Mehlis makers were mostly behind the iron courtain, out of business. When the German hunters and Schützen were allowed to own guns again in the 1950s, handloading was out. Powder was regarded as an explosive by allied law, unavailble to the common citizen. The former offerings of factory swaged lead bullets and pre-packed charges had diappeared. So it was factory ammo only. Germans had to rearm anyhow.The pure target Schützen went to the .22 lr exclusively. Hunters had to use a centerfire for their matches. .22 Hornets, loaded for accuracy by the German factories, were much cheaper and even more accurate than 8.15x46R factory loads. So the Hornet became the standard hunter' match cartridge. Of the former Zella – Mehlis gunmakers that had fled to the west, only Weihrauch made and offered falling block rifles, both in .22 lr and .22 Hornet for some time. As these were no more accurate, but more expensive than bolt actions, they disappeared in the 1960s. So now a bolt action Jagdmatch Hornet by Anschuetz, Weihrauch, Walther or Krico is the rule.

[mike ford]

Axel,
No, I didn't look at the proof marks, but since I had a set of loading dies, he asked if I could load some ammo for him, when his supply ran out. I saw some of the cases then, and they were OK. I decided to use 30-30 cases, instead, since there were plenty at the Rod & Gun Club Range, and I had plenty of boxer primers. His cases were berdan primed, and I had left my berdan primers at home in the states. I was in the process of making cases when RWS made another run of 8.15x46R ammo. He decided to use the RWS, because it had the jacketed bullets, and my small supply of them were also in the states, so I was going to use cast bullets. Since he would have had to use cast bullets "under the table", he was better off with the jacketed. In other words, I'm sure the drilling was 8.15x46R. I suspect it was made before the restrictions on cartridges became so strict.
Mike

[yamoon]

Axel
Thanks for the information. I don't shoot in matches any longer. The feel and look of the falling blocks and the fun of shooting them and my schuetzen rifles is the important things now.
Mike