Relining 16 ga Drilling?

[jillandsam303]

I just enlarged their photo of the barrels. They are Krupp Laufstahls from Essen.

I wonder if anyone in Germanguns.com has guidelines for "safe" 16 gauge barrel thickness out there?download (12).jpg

[sharps4590]

My experience with Cabela's and drillings or, about anything German other than a Mauser, is that a reasonably intelligent 3rd grader is as trustworthy.

[mike ford]

It is unlikely that the barrels were "honed" in Germany; if they were at all, it was likely in US. It is likely that if they were "honed" a significant amount in Germany, it would have to be re-proofed, and would carry an "R"(repair) proof on each barrel affected.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, here's what Cabela's says:

"Min bbl wall thickness (at the front of the chamber for a 16 gauge) is .075 inches. If my memory is correct, the right barrel measured .076 and the left barrel measured .068. If these barrels are lined, it will make them absolutely safe. (Briley does it for, I believe $350-400 for both barrels)."

I'm having the gun shipped to my nearest Cabela's so I can check it out before I buy it.

Sam

[mike ford]

Sam,
I believe the Briley process is more like an eibstecklauf than the process Axel described, I don't know their price, and I believe it results in a smaller gauge gun( in your case 20 or 28 ga). I'm still not convinced the barrels are bad now. Let us know how it works out.
Mike.

[jillandsam303]

Mike, I called Briley. I send them the barrels, they custom fit two 28 ga. barrels for around $600. But....28 ga? I'll wait to see the tubes in person next week. I've asked my gunsmith here in Hendersonville who does amazing work to look at them too.

Sam

[Axel E]

Sam, with a set of Briley insert tubes you will add nearly one pound to the Drilling up front. This will make the gun decidedly muzzle heavy.

[jillandsam303]

Axel, AND decidedly under powered with 28 gauge.

Sam

[mike ford]

Sam,
I have been thinking about this a lot. I don't think there in a minimum barrel thickness required in the proof law( German- US has no law). Dimensions determine the "caliber". If a "thin" barrel passes proof, it was considered OK. The question, then, becomes: did it pass the proof with the thin wall? Now we are sure it passed proof with 65mm chambers. If it still has 65mm chambers, it is likely OK for 65mm shells. If it now has 70mm (2 3/4") chambers and not marked as such with also a "Repair" proof ( meaning it was re-proofed for the longer chambers) then I would be a little bit concerned. Even if limited to 65mm shells, the barrel has still been changed, if it now has 70mm chambers. I don't think cutting a long forcing cone, alone, would require re-proof. Maybe Axel will ask Shotgun Charlie about this.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

OK, Axel and Mike will probably call me crazy, but I had the gun shipped from Cabela's Oregon to the nearest store to me in South Carolina. I saw it and bought it yesterday after offering them what I think is a very good price. It's my first sidelock drilling and is gorgeous...on the outside. The engraving, action, barrels, screw condition, wood and checkering are all very nice. Axel was right and Cabelas was wrong. It's a J.P. Sauer Model 25a in 16x16x9.3x73. The proof date is January 1925. It's got 27" full choke bbls with a single cocking pin indicator for the rifle on the tang and rotating indicators for the shotgun bbls on each side of the action. It's got engraved claw mount bases already installed and a 4 hole cartridge compartment in the stock. However, on the inside, as advertised, it's another story. Even though the rifle bbl is in decent shape, the shotgun bbls are a disaster. Totally pitted. I'm not going to shoot it, so having Briley install tiny 28 ga. barrel tubes isn't something I want to do for $600. But I'm contemplating finding someone who can ream/hone/polish the bores just for aesthetics. Nu-Line Guns will have their new reaming machine installed in a few months and told me to call them back once it's working. They estimate that it will be about $400 IF they can do it. I've invested up to 4 times what I paid for this gun for some of my 6 drillings so this may end up as my most expensive "Wall Hanger". But it's a beauty.

[mike ford]

Sam,
I don't think you are crazy at all, and I also think it is a nice old drilling. I don't see any reason you can't shoot it like it is. I prefer my "using" drillings to carry an einstecklauf in the right barrel, anyway. A 20 ga. chamber reducer is, in my mind, a reasonable compromise for the left barrel. With modern shells using shot cups, you should get decent patterns. That leaves the rifle barrel, and you reported it is in decent shape. I suggest an aggressive cleaning of the shot gun barrels with a brush ( I like a 50 BMG chamber brush) on a cleaning rod, powered by a "drill motor", and forego reaming. With my style of hunting, I usually shoot the rifle barrel, sometimes use the EL to take a bobcat, raccoon, or squirrel, but hardly ever shoot the shot shell in the left barrel. Anyway, the 9.3x72R is a great old caliber to load for( I did see you listed it as 9.3x73R). Did you ever determine whether it is 9.3x72R Norm., or 9.3x72R Sauer and Son?
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, thanks for the reassurance. I'll try the 50 BMG chamber brush. Ever try one of these? http://www.handsontools.com/Brush-Re...5u0aAgqt8P8HAQ May be too agressive? Haven't confirmed Norm or S&S. What brand of chamber reducer are you referring to? Sam

[mike ford]

Sam,
No, I never used a "flex hone", but a late gunsmith friend used one frequently in his business. They hone the barrels rather than just clean them. It is your gun, but I wouldn't hone or ream it if it were mine; after all the problem to start this discussion was a question of the barrel's thickness. I don't know the brand of chamber reducers I have, they came from the estate of a late friend, in fact they may have been "shop made" and sent to him for evaluation with an eye toward marketing them. There are a couple makers on the market, I'm sure you can find them on "google". The ones I have are extended a little past the original chamber, but I believe the Walthers are chamber length( may only be available in bulleted cartridges). Also they don't have separate extractors and you have to pull the case out with a thumbnail.
Mike
Sam, Pull up Little Skeeters Products Page.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, amazingly, what shows up on GI two days after I buy the Sauer Sidelock? The exact same gun (with good bores) http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100880346

[mike ford]

Sam,
Yes, it is a nice Drilling. It is not proofed for 8x57IRS, as they indicated, however( although it may work), rather it is for 8x57IR. If the chambers are 2 3/4", they were lengthened in the US and not proofed as such. The scope mounts are not Shuler Einhakmontage, however and I don't know what type they are, maybe Axel does. While it doesn't make much difference, I noted that the shot gun has tight bores. The vast majority of 16 gauge guns I see have 16 or 16/1 bores, whereas this one has 17/1 gauge bores. If yours also has 17 ga. bores and if whoever said your barrel wall is too thin simply subtracted the "normal" bore diameter from the outside diameter, then the wall may not be as thin as reported.
Mike