7.7mm over 57 is it 8x57/360

[Doug Kellermann]

I am seriously looking at a Lechner drilling from Cabelas.

The gun is marked 7.7mm over a 57. Is this the 8x57r/360? If so how effective is the 8x57r/360?

thanks

Doug

[Axel E]

It may be both a 8x57IR or a 8x57R360. If it is a "Roux-" = underlever snap action drilling it is most likely an 8x57R360. Make a chamber cast. The 8x57R360 is long out of print, but you can make cases from 9.3x72R brass, which is also in short supply. Both cartridges share a very limited bullet supply: Here in Germany only the .318" 196gr Sellier&Bellot rn sp is sometimes "readily availble". Ballistically, the 8x57R360 is roughly comparable to the equally obsolete .303 Savage as it uses the 196gr bullet at 1900-2100 fps at best.

[mike ford]

Doug,
Axel, of course, is correct as to the ID of the cartridge. Since it is at Cabelas, you may not be able to make a chamber cast. You may ba able to ID it anyway, if Cabela will agree to try a 30-30 case rim in the rim recess (upside down). The rim of 8x57IR is considerably larger than 8x57R/360, whereas 30-30 is only a little larger. In addition to 9.3x72R, Starline makes a 38-55 case which is almost the correct length( current length of 38-55 is 2.08", original is 2.125, and I believe Starline is 2.495") Original length 38-55 is useable, but will have a neck a little short.I am always a little hesitant to shorten 9.3x72R cases this much, since they are needed for longer cartridges. Bullets are a little more avaliable in US than in Germany. Buffalo Arms, Huntington Die Specialities, and Graf will have them. Bullets for 32 Win.Spec (.321") can be easily sized to .318", and are made for a similar velocity. After slugging the barrel,.321" may be useable (not too uncommon) and cast bullets are always a possibility.

[Doug Kellermann]

Thanks Axel and Mike for the identification and technical information.

Not being familiar with the 8x57R/360 cartridge, would it be an effective cartridge for feral hogs and deer or would it be better for coyote and fox?

Regards,

Doug

[Axel E]

Simply said, it is a 30-30 class cartridge, so you may use it for any purpose you would use a 30-30 for.

[ellenbr]

Ford is correct in that you can get similar components from Buffalo Arms as they have a cast 0.316" 178 grain round nose that is a copy of a RWS Stop Ring bullet. Also they have 360 2 1/4" Nitro Express cases which you can neck down. If you want some 9.3X72R cases and want to take a go at turning those down they did have a large lot of 9.3X72R cases converted from 9.3x74R but the area just forward of the base will more than likely need to be resized several times.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

The case I showed above as 2.495", is really 2.245"($1.79ea, $29.00/20). They also have formed 8x58R Sauer cases for $2.46ea or $40.00/20( this would be only fireform/trim job to make 8x57R/360, then could likely be loaded with normal 8x57 dies-wo expander). They do have 9.3x72R cases(Norma) for $1.67ea or $26.60/20, but would have to be severly shortened.

[nhdblfan]

Hi,
I have a cape gun in 8X57R360 (and I do hunt it but have not bagged a deer with it yet),I bought my ammo from a guy in LI who does custom loading.Happy to pass along the name if its allowed here.

[mike ford]

That is a really nice looking gun, keep trying until you kill a deer with it. I don't know if anything would be wrong with giving your custom handloaders name; If he loads these old metric calibers, you should encourage him to join us.

[nhdblfan]

Hi Mike,
thanks, its neat Cape and has fairly nice engraving.The 16g is super tight, I probably should open it up a bit and I hear rumors of Breneke bringing in 2 1/2" slugs.Unfortunately it only gets limited duty come hunting season due to to many other choices and the old eyes iron sights.
The guy that does the custom loading is in LI the name of the company is Safari Arms,I sense he does a lot of work for the guys going over to Africa. I have used him for that Cape, some 8X57 JS ( a custom Mauser) and a 8X56 MS (1908 M/S)

here is his site;
http://www.safariarms.com/

and another picture of my Cape,the belly-better then earlier on :

[Büchsemann]

nhdblfan,

Do you know the maker of your cape gun? It looks like it's in great shape. The belly picture is a little out of focus but it appears to have some nice rose and scroll engraving. As to Brenneke bringing back the 2 1/2" classic slugs I have been assured that we should see them hitting the American market the first quarter of next year. Brenneke's "official" announcement of such is expected to come about sometime in November (2012). IMHO I would leave the original choke alone as 2 1/2" 16 ga spreader loads are readily available from a number of suppliers.

Regards,

Büchsemann

[nhdblfan]

Hi Büchsemann,
and thank you for the compliment on my Cape. I apologize for the blurry pic and will put up a better one.The Cape is marked "VAL.TSCHINKOWITZ FERLACH"
I won't touch the chambers on the 16,its the choke that so tight I can not get the skeets bore gauge,its XXX Full.

here are a couple pics, one of the top



and ,hopefully a better one of the belly with the Rose and scroll

best
Dave

[mike ford]

My eyes are also old, plus I just had cataracts removed. To deal with this, I hunt with my open sighted rifles in the mornings and scoped rifles in the afternoons. I have the same understanding about the Brenneke slugs. I understand one of our members was involved in making this happen. These slugs(others too) can be safely used in your tight barrel.If you are shooting 2 1/2" shotshells, the people that supply them can likely supply "spreader" loads to deal with extra tight chokes.The choice to open the choke(or chamber) can only be made by you, considering your own circumstances and whether you consider it a fine hunting tool or only a collectable item to be left unmodified. If you want to increase your enjoyment of this, and your other rifles,you can do so by handloading.Also by working up loads for your rifles, you learn more about their capabilities and get more experience with their particular sights.
Mike

[Büchsemann]

nhdblfan,

Yep, you certainly have yourself a very nice cape gun. Thank you for posting the new pictures.

It was your issue with the tight choke that I was saying could be addressed by using 2 1/2" spreader loads not the chambers. Here are links that will take you to two firms that produce such loads:

http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html

http://www.rstshells.com/

Regards,

Büchsemann

[nhdblfan]

Thank you Mike and Büchsemann for your compliments on the Cape.

One day I will take it out again,I was thinking the last time might have been for Turkey a couple years ago,will have to be sure I can find a stand in the thick stuff to give her an outing for deer this fall.I have to many other choices in the battery and always seem to reach for a scoped rifle first.

best
Dave