Brenneke 2 1/2" (65mm) 16 Slugs - FYI

[algmule]

Hello

I´m trying again. Was some problem with image size.

Anyway, for what it´s worth.

The below "snippet" is the end part of a 1922-article. The article mentions that guns are individuals. Also, that improvements and progress over time had given hollow slugs that were more suitable for tubes which were heavily choked. The article does not mention Drillings so much as shotguns part from that Mr. Uhlenflucht points out that his own Drilling gives a good result with slugs in the right tube. I suppose tubes are individuals as well. Apart from the three variants of slugs mentioned I can add the Witzleben´sche slug on which he, if I remember correctly, had a DRGM regarding an improvement. Witzleben´s slug is pre 1922. I suspect there were countless others as well, as is the case today. Conclusion would be that it depends on the weapon, what kind of slug and its weight, the powder charge behind it, the dimension of the tube, the sights, and that one would have to try out what´s best for each gun/Drilling. Probably also depends on who is behind the stock, come to think of it. So if German and Austrian gunmakers regulated Drillings for slugs there would have been a lot of considering for them to do.

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Also, I´m a bit confused as regards the term "Flintenlaufgeschoss" in the article. I would have thought that bleibolzengeschoss(e) is the more correct word. Probably my poor German giving rise to my confusion.

Also: I may remember correctly that Witzleben´s DRP on his slug is from around 1892-93. Although I would have to check before stating it as a fact.

Kind regards
Peter

EDIT: sorry, but can´t work out why the image becomes so small when putting it up in the thread. Worked fine a couple of days ago when I posted in another thread. Computers are beyond me.

[algmule]

Hello again

Going at it again. See my post above.

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Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
I would guess that "Flintenlaufgeschoss" would be "Shotgun barrel bullet", given the German habit of "stringing" words together to mean what ever they are trying to say. Anyway your German is much better than mine.
Mike

[Leatherman]

Well I went to the range with a couple of my guns including a drilling I wanted to do some experimenting with and darn if I didn't forget the rifle shells. I did shoot my Kersten cape gun and confirmed that the impact of the two barrels is regulated by the weight and velocity of the ammo just as it is in a double rifle. The right barrel recoils off the left and vise versa. My 300 grain bullets out the right barrel shot 3" farther to the left than the heavier and slower 250 grain bullets. My left smooth bore barrel shot a Brenekee slug high but in line with the 250 grain bullet. I want to see if the lower barrel on a drilling recoils off the upper smooth bore barrels and how velocities and bullet weight effects it. The range was 25 yards. I had to go to a public range and it didn't have a 50 yard backstop. So I am convinced one could do some regulation experimenting with different loads and bullet / slug combinations. I conigraphed the Brenekee at 1340 fps. Balistic Enterprises has reload data for their 1 ounce Dangerous Game 16 gauge slug which covers higher and lower velocities than 1340 fps.

[Axel E]

Some remarks from a German view:
The old proof mark warnings " nicht für Kugel = not for ball = non pour balle = ne pro kuli" , all used once outside Germany on choked shot barrels, really mean "not for bore sized round lead balls". Formerly such balls worked quite well in cylinder bore barrels. But such incompressible balls are apt to iron out any choke boring. So many inventors like von Witzleben, Stendebach, Brenneke, Foster, designed bullets with compressible guide ribs or bands that are usable in choke bore barrels. A whole book, Flintenlaufgeschosse/Slugs, was recently published,
https://www.amazon.de/Flintenlaufges...nlaufgeschosse
German "Flintenlaufgeschoss", literally shotgun barrel bullet, is the generic term for the things Americans call "Slugs". (in British parlance "slugs" are buckshot)
Noone here in Germany uses Flintenlaufgeschosse = slugs as the preferred missiles for any hunting of hoofed game, as there are no "shotgun only" rules anywhere, anymore. THey are used only as Ersatz means if no rifle barrel is availble at the moment. One such use is in the left shot barrel of a drilling for use as an Ersatz double rifle on driven boar at short range. The other is to carry a couple slug cartridges in a separate pocket while hunting with a shotgun for fur and feather. Just in case you flush a boar instead of a hare or pheasant… The accepted range limit for slug use in such cases is 40 meters = 45 yards (standard question on hunters exam).
It was different in the former GDR: The avarage, non-privileged hunter then was not allowed to own a rifled barrel, as you could possibly snipe at a high ranking communist official with such a thing. So the poor guys then were limited to shotguns, mostly 16g side by sides. You sometimes saw such shotguns mounted with scopes to be able to see a boar at night. common practice was to select the more accurate barrel first and sight in open sights or scope for that barrel only, disregarding the other barrel if it did not "regulate" by accident. Such a sighted in barrel was then deemed usable out to 70 – 80 meters.
Rarely any drilling or combination was regulated by the maker for the use of specific rifle and slug loads, Shot barrels were meant for shot , period. As Mike mentioned, regulation works only with such specific bullet weights and loads. According to Newton's third law of motion, a gun starts to move as the bullet is accelerated down the bore. This is not straight back. It also makes the gun rotate around it's center of gravity, muzzle up usually. The amount of this movement depends on the mass relation gun to bullet and on the time the bullat is still inside the barrel. As these mass relations are entirely different with the rifle barrel using a 180 gr bullet at 2500 fps and a 440 gr one at 1000 fps from the same gun, the two barrels have to point in different directions relative to the sight line. If you now hang a scope on said gun, you not only alter the mass of the gun, but you move upwards it's center of gravity too. This will invariably now make a slug, that regulated to the rifle barrel with open sights, shoot low with the scope attached.