Reloading 16 gauge Brass Shells with Smokeless Powder

[Peter K]

Hello,
I ran across this thread that may be of interest to those with short chambered 16 gauge tubes on their Germanic guns.
Https:www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qrquIYh3U

The author has more information on this topic on the "castboolits.gunloads.com" website under loading for shotguns.

Peter K

[cordite]

I do it in a similar manner but prefer black powder.

[Peter K]

I'm getting a couple drillings from Germany delivered by a buddy of mine. I will be working on smokeless loads for the rifle and I think it's wise to have smokeless in the shotgun at the same time. It would make cleaning simpler and it can be put off for a while especially when in camp and one gets busy with game or other chores.

Peter

[Diz]

Peter K, if they are nitro proof your job will be easy but if not it will take a bit more effort to develop a very low pressure load. I have a couple in plastic hulls for my cape rifle. However, the components won't work in a brass hull. RST make some very nice low pressure stuff for the 16 also. Looking forward to hearing more about this. Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

I don't load smokeless in brass hulls, only black for my non nitro proofed combination gun and drillings. However, I see no reason his methods won't work in a single barrel gun. A later comment has the poster stating he's learned not to use lubed fiber wads. With Bp you better. A trick to use even with smokeless is to seat a tight fitting over shot card on top of the hard, nitro card before inserting the lubed fiber wad. I suspect wads punched from waxed milk cartons would work even better.

Using in a single barrel the Elmer's Glue or Duco will probably work ok but it will dry out and when used in drillings, double guns or combination guns the recoil will eventually pull the over shot card and you'll hear the distinct sound of shot rolling down the unfired barrel. Diz and I discussed this problem and upon his recommendation I decided to try what they used 120 years ago, waterglass, also known as sodium silicate. It works as good today as it did back then and is as easy to apply as any glue. I've not had an OSC pull loose from recoil since. 'Course loading the brass hulls is the same as any other loading, we all eventually find what works for us.

Good luck when you receive your drillings and post your results!! Would love to read of them.

[mike ford]

Vic,
Do you think maybe the poster used fiber wads, lubed with a petroleum based product, in the black powder shells?
Mike

[Peter K]

Sharps, I know about water glass but I have never run across any. Where would one find a source?

The first time I loaded brass shells with shot I used Elmer's to seal the overshot card. I put about 20 rounds in a cartridge belt primer up. I was wearing it in my shop prancing around with it until suddenly about a third of the overshot cards let go. Expletive! So, yes, I'm very interested in finding some water glass.
Peter

[sharps4590]

Mike, I don't know and I don't recall he mentioned what lube he used. In hot weather I expect even the dedicated BP lubes would foul part of the powder if it migrated into the charge. I don't see how enough lube could get through a 2 1/2 dram BP charge to foul a primer or perhaps even a smokeless charge.

Peter, I got mine from where else, Amazon. Do a search and a couple hundred sources will show up as it appears to be quite common. I want to remember when I did my search there was some Canadian sources which might be better for you, I don't know. I think it was about $12.00 American plus shipping for....a quart? The stuff sure seems to go a long way and I really like the way it works!!! It does dry to where it literally looks like glass. 'Course being silicate I don't suppose I should have expected anything different. I do know my days of Duco, Elmer's or a hot glue gun are over. As is often the case old doesn't mean obsolete.

[Diz]

I think he was using a pre-lubed wad but could be wrong. I don't load many brass shotgun hulls but I do use pre-lubed wads plus wads I lube myself. I stick a sewing needle in them and dip them in melted lube. It quickly soaks into the wad and does a nice job with either black or smokeless. One note is that I usually don't load them until a day or two before I plan to use them and never had an issue with lube migration. Another thing is I don't agree with the guy banging the wads in with a hammer. Consistency is the name of the game with reloading and even more for shotgun. I normally load on a single stage press and use the wad pressure indicator to seat the wads but you can make up a rammer from a wooden dowel and put them on a bathroom scale and press them in. Twenty pounds should be enough. Don't hammer the over shot card either, you only damage the shot and ruin your pattern. Just press it in lightly and use the water-glass. You'll have no problems. Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Sharps4590,
Vic, I had in mind pre-lubed wads like Diz mentioned. Water glass is the "school solution", but it has it's own set of problems. If you let it sit awhile, it will settle out, then it will take a couple days of shaking and turning over to get it useable. The good thing is you can finally get it mixed up again, even if you thank it isn't possible, at first. I use Tite Bond in my bee loads, but they are small, and used in a single shot to boot. Has any one tried Gorilla Glue yet?
Mike

[sharps4590]

I saw that Diz, hammering on the OSC, and thought the same thing.

I didn't know that Mike. I haven't had the waterglass very long so it probably hasn't had time to settle. It sure worked good with the loads I tested. The only pre-lubed wads I've used seem to be lubed with a paraffin/beeswax based lube. I don't know but I'd think it would need to get pretty hot for it to soak through the hard card and foul the powder charge. Diz is light years ahead of me when it comes to that sort of thing so his opinion is the one should be listened to.

I'm not a big shotgunner and am prone to load ahead a little bit. Every glue I tried dried out and broke loose in what seemed a short period of time to me, a few months.

[mike ford]

Vic,
I make bee loads with the same 20 cases, so I pretty much shoot them the same week they were loaded. If I kept them a long time, the Tite Bond might dry out too. I think it will take a year for waterglass to settle out. The longer it sits, the harder it is to mix up. Don't throw it away, you can finally get it mixed up again. I don't think paraffin/beeswax would foul the powder either, I was thinking Alox.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Alox on/in a fiber shotgun wad? Hmm...never occurred to me but I certainly don't know what all was/has been used. It's been over 50 years ago when Dad was teaching me to load shotshells so anything I remember from them is subject to the ravages of time. We still used the traditional wad column and I want to remember they were lubed with some kind of wax based lube but, Dad wasn't into loading for other than hunting so I'm certain our loading was held to the absolute minimum expenditure of funds. Most of my shotshell loading is with your favorite powder, black, (), and as Diz described I lube mine with melted Crisco.

From what you're telling me about the waterglass do you think it would behoove me to give it a good shakin' once a week?

[mike ford]

Vic,
I'm not an experienced shotshell reloader( I've had a Herter's set of tools since about 63, and never used them) so I'm no authority. I just know black powder and petroleum based lubes "don't play well together". I wouldn't worry about shaking it every week, just don't think it is ruined, if you find it settled out.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Well, I walked past my bench and the waterglass was setting there staring at me so I gave it a good minute's worth of shaking and turned it over.....lol!