Another vom Hofe

[Diz]

I went to an auction yesterday that was loaded with German, Austrian and Swiss bolt guns thinking I could buy something interesting. There was a very fine looking Steyr in 8x68 that I really wanted but it went higher than I could go. There was also a very nice Steyr, Diamler, Puch in 6.5x54 MS that I also bid up as far as I could go but no joy. At least I got to see and handle them for a bit. Then to my great surprise I found a Christopher Triebel of Suhl in 5.6 x 61 vom Hofe SE. I was very fortunate that there was no one there that really wanted it so I was able to get it for a nice price.
Below are pictures of the rifle, left & right sides.

vH right side.jpg


vH left side.jpg

Some features are double set triggers, case colored action that is lightly engraved and a Nickel 6 x 9 x 56 scope. The butt, grip and fore end tip are horn. Unfortunately, the pictures don’t do the color hardening any justice at all.

vH scope mount right side.jpg

I wonder about two things on this rifle. First, when I took it out of the wood I found the barrel marked Robert Pfiffer, Suhl along with the caliber and proofs. This makes me wonder if it was re-barreled at some time in the past or who really did make the rifle originally.


vH barrel & maker stamps.jpg

Second, I was wondering if anyone could tell the origin of the scope mounts. I believe they are EAW twist-off but can’t confirm that.

Another plus was getting two hundred rounds of factory ammo with it. It’s marked W. Gehmann, V.Hofe 5.6x61.
This purchase may force the sale of my other vH but I have enjoyed that one for a long time.

All comments and opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Diz, can't tell you a thing other than that's a nice rifle!!! Evidently you called it right about the interest level. Well done and good for you! Now you have something to play with. Maybe I'll get lucky come Saturday.

[Diz]

sharps,

At least I have all the issues with loading worked out for this one long ago and I can just go to the range and shoot. Hope you made out at your show.

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Show isn't until this coming weekend, the 17th-19th, so nothing to report. Everyone knows how shows are so.....hard to say what might show up, especially here in the Ozarks.

[Axel E]

Your "new" rifle was assembled , at least rebarreled, b y Robert Pfeiffer, Wertherstrasse 1, Suhl. It was Suhl proofed 1042 = October 1942. Scope and mount are much later. The Nickel scope is from the 1960s – 70s, while the EAW pivot mounts with lever lock apparently replaced original claw mount bases not before 1980.
BTW, a new cartridge case maker SHM – Sueddeutsche Huelsenmanufaktur www.huelsenmanufaktur.de plans to offer 5.6x61Hofe brass soon. They also offer hard to find brass for several other old cartridges: 6.5x58R, 7x72R, 7x75R SE v.Hofe, 8x51 kurz, 8x56 M-Sch,8x57R 360, 8x72R, 8x75RS, 9.3x72R, and others.

[Diz]

Thanks Axel for that information and I will add it to the file for this rifle. I was wondering why there were two makers names on the rifle. I can't say if I am disappointed or not I think the craftsmanship is fantastic and for a gun that has been around, it is in excellent shape and an extra fine shooter. I know you are going to shake your head in disbelief of the chrono numbers as I did too. I have no explanation at this point. Read the following and thanks again, Diz

Shot my “new” Triebel today and it was an eye-opening experience! I set up my Pact Pro with infrared screens and shot the factory ammo I got with the rifle. It was a brisk 21 degrees Fahrenheit but just a light breeze. I was more than a little surprised by the first shot reading at 3672 fps and the bolt lift was a bit stiff. The primer was flat and higher pressure seemed indicated. Everything else looked good and the bullet was on the paper at 100 yards. I made an adjustment to the scope and fired the second shot. That was even faster and the bolt lift tight but I didn’t have to bang it open. I made another scope adjustment and fired four more at a slow pace. After the fourth shot and a 3701 fps reading I stopped. Primers were flattened and some showing slight cratering, bolt lift was about the same but quite stiff. I can’t see damaging the rifle so I packed it up. Attached is the target and chronograph data and a shot of the cartridge bases.
The chrono data may be hard to read so here it is:
#001 3590.6 FPS
#002 3671.6 FPS
#003 3697.8 FPS
#004 3689.6 FPS
#005 3683.1 FPS
#006 3701.1 FPS
Hi 3701.1 FPS
Low 3590.6 FPS
SD 41.4 FPS
CV 1.1%
MAD 27.5 FPS
CV 0.8%
Avg 3672.3 FPS
ES 110.6

Triebel First Target0001.jpg



vom Hofe case II.jpg

I expect these numbers to open up a whole can of worms but this is what came up and I have no reason to believe the chrono is off. Perhaps they were reloaded by the previous owner but they certainly look factory to me. I plan to pull bullets in what is left of that box and examine everything. They are definitely HOT!
Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Ahhh....yes sir, that's warmish!! I'd be pullin' bullets too.

[mike ford]

Diz,
Were the boxes sealed, or had they been opened? The primers, I think, should have been brass colored. I may be wrong, it looks like they were made after IWK (DWM)went out of business and Wolfgang Remy was loading it in the 90s( note the double pentagon in the head stamp). I never had any of his ammo, maybe he used newer silver colored primers. The primers are pretty flat, but maybe not excessively so for a bolt gun.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

One box was open and had five shot in it. All the fired ones look the same as these primer wise. I thought the same about the silver primers as I have only seen copper in factory ammo before. Since I shot six I had to open a second box and it was the same.

I pulled a bullet and it weighed 77 grains, the powder was 52.2 grains. It's a long grain stick powder that I cannot identify and I have 73 pounds of 43 different types in my stock. (not counting black powder, thanks to sharps!) So what ever it is it's doing the job very handily. You are right that the primers are not that bad and I didn't have to hit the bolt to open it but it was very stiff and not to my liking at all. I am going to pull everything.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
I always advise that if you are not comfortable with doing something( relating to guns/shooting/handloading), then don't do it. If someone else says do it anyway, they won't be there when it goes bad. I guess Remy loads them hot. I had similar experience with Hirtenberger(?), in other calibers.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

Good advice as always. Perhaps they were trying to match the claimed velocities and something changed. I still have not been able to match the powder. I am pulling them all and will reload in my proven Viht N-570 load using these bullets. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

Diz, your ammo was loaded in the 1990s for Gehmann, Karlsruhe, http://www.gehmann.com/ ,by Wolfgang Romey, Petershagen, Germany, http://wr-munition.com/ (name misspelled "Remy" by Dixon) , cases made by Horneber http://www.huelsen-horneber.de/index_en.html . Neither Gehmann nor Romey offer 5.6x61 SE loads any more. There were always pressure problems with the post-DWM 5.6x61 SE loads, both by Mayer and Romey, some Mauser 66 rifles(a Gehmann design too) reported blown up. Maybe both custom loaders tried to achieve the exaggerated old advertized velocities, instead of loading to the real original DWM velocities.

[Axel E]

Wolfgang Romey used his pentagon trademark on proprietary ammo loaded for others. On ammo sold by themdirectly, the cases are stamped WR. When Romey started to offer his WR marked loads for British big game numbers, he had some fears, as WR in that relation is usually read as Westley Richards. But the venerable Birmingham gunmaker was quite happy. They bought in the WR headstamped Romey loads, pasted their own labels on the boxes and sold them as their own proprietary loads.

[Diz]

Axel,

Once again you amaze with the depth of your knowledge and I appreciate your posting about it. I was planning to post a picture of the ammo cartons but my wife used them to kindle the wood stove while I was out snow blowing the drive. I cannot blame her as I left the pile on the kitchen table and she assumed they were scrap. A good lesson. Thanks also for the notes on the trademarks and info about Westley Richards. All good to know. If I can match up the powder I will post what I found.

Regards, Diz