Name of rifling on Jaeger Rifle

[Leatherman]

Interesting history on rifling and powder charges from the early German side. We have been taught over here that when the
German emigrant gunmakers came to the colonies and started producing gun barrels they soon found out the primitive black powder being produced here, as there was an imbargo on the import of BP from the British, was not as fast burning as the powder produced in the old world so in order that the necessary velocity be reached they needed to lengthen the barrels and lengthen the twist of the rifling . Thus the Pennsylvania long rifle was eventually developed. Over the next two hundred years most barrel makers here settled on twist rates of 48" to 70" with smaller calibers having faster twist normally. Today the same pretty much applies but most patched round ball barrels are made with a 66" twist rate for 45 and larger calibers. The powder charges again should not exceed 90 grains on the larger calibers as accuracy starts to suffer. But there are still a lot of people who don't know better and figure more is better, faster, and put way too much powder in their muzzle loaders. There are commercial muzzle loaders made with barrels made in 28" to 48" rates of twist. These usually do not shoot a round patched ball well but these guns were made to shoot the conical lead balls that the manufacturer also sells such as the maxi balls.

[sharps4590]

Could not possibly agree more with Axel and Leatherman. The Rev. War battle of Trenton was against the Hessians led by Colonel Johann Rall who was a casualty.

The Englishman Forsythe experimented thoroughly with slow twists, 1- 108 is one I recall, huge charges of powder, 6-10 drams I believe, and hardened balls. His intent was for large game. Seyfried has I believe worked with a Forsythe rifled barrel with interesting and successful results.

[Leatherman]

I have a Rice Barrel in .62 caliber with the Forsythe rifling 1-106 twist that was part of a run of 20 or so barrels Rice barrel company ran a few years back. I just have not had the time to build the Jaeger rifle I ordered it for. It is in the wood blank hanging on the shop wall. Hopefully when I retire (slow down) from my leather business I will get back to building muzzleloaders again. I wanted to take it to Africa this year but it isn't going to happen.

[Diz]

Leatherman & Sharps,

I am thinking a .62 caliber ball is about the same as a 20 gauge ball and would weigh close to 350 grains. That in front of 6 to 10 drams of black would have to hurt on both ends. How long a barrel do you need to burn 10 drams?

Thanks, Diz

[Leatherman]

You are correct that would hurt. My barrel is 32" long and probably wouldn't burn more than 120 grains of ff black powder anyway. I never heard back from anyone who built a rifle on one of these barrels whether it worked and what types of loads they tried. We were thinking about 150 grains of powder max out of the short 32" barrel but my experience with this length barrel in a more common 66" twist showed unburned powder at around 120 grains. This was determined by shooting off a bench with snow on the ground. You could see the unburied powder on the snow. Made a lot of fire and smoke too. But according to Forsythes experiments with the slower twist and shallow rifling , he got faster velocities with the bigger heavier balls useing 150 and higher loads of powder. I don't know what length barrel he used. I got caught up in the discussion and thought it would be cool to build one and use it on African game but as I said I never got it done. Over the years of building 16 guns in calibers from 32 to 62 I have become fond of the larger sizes. They definitely perform better on large game and create a better blood trail.

[sharps4590]

You're right Diz. In my 20 bore fowler the round ball that works is a .600 and if memory doesn't fail me it weighs 340 grs. of straight lead. I only shoot 60 grs. of Ffg. in it and it is exceedingly accurate out to 50 yards if I do my part in maintaining a consistent cheek weld. It's also devastating on deer sized game within it range limitations. Those huge charges Forsythe talked about and, being from a rifled barrel rather than a smooth bore had to talk on both ends. As Dad would have said, "kill on one end and maim on the other".

[Diz]

They must have been some stouthearted fellows indeed because 10 drams is very near 275 grains of BP. Maimed may not even describe the effect. Hard to disagree that big, heavy and slow bullets can get the job done. Thanks, Diz

[Fred]

Diz, I am posting to see if I have the same problem. Fred